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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
JonathanInTelAviv: "I agree with you that Israel's stopping the expansion of settlements can help reduce tensions, and therefore help move towards a solution by showing Israeli goodwill in the eyes of moderate Palestinians, thereby strengthening them."
Cool. Which is to say, you agree with me that settlement expansion in the West Bank significantly undermines the peace process. (I don't mean misrepresent your position - please correct me if I am wrong here.)
JonathanInTelAviv: "The conditioning you propose eliminates that effect, since then if Israel "caves in" it will be seen as weakness by Israel, instead of goodwill."
I disagree. Israel's adversaries are already well aware of Israel's weakness with respect to being reliant on U.S. "aid." As such, how would Israel's "caving in" to the U.S.'s condition that Israel stop settlement expansion to continue receiving said aid be perceived as an additional weakness?
And even if it were, how would that additional weakness undermine the peace process more than continued settlement expansion does now?
And do you agree that if the United States were to condition their aid Israel on stopping settlement expansion that it would be perceived an intention of getting serious with respect to the Israeli/Palestinian peace process on the part of the United States?
Yes, the women here are nothing short of amazing. Look on YouTube for videos (tasteful but hot) of same.
No
No
Paul in KY: "The Israelis back then managed to get away with that. It's not fair, but I don't see the Palestinians being allowed that same latitude."
I don't see it as a matter of "allowing" the Palestinians to get away with continued terrorism - I see it instead as an issue of what's realistically possible here. Again the Israelis couldn't control their terrorists when they were creating a state - their more moderate leaders (Ben Gurion, etc) tried to, but they failed. As such I don't see how we can realistically expect for the more moderate Palestinians to succeed here when the more moderate Israelis were not able to.
And the flip side of making the peace process contingent upon Palestinians stopping all terrorism first is this: that effectively gives the Palestinian terrorists veto power over the peace process, which they will continue to exercise. Which is why I agree with former Israeli PM Yitzak Rabin's position on the issue:
"Fight terrorism as if there was no peace process, and pursue the peace process as if there was no terrorism."
- Israeli Labor Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin, who was assassinated by a Jewish religious fanatic for being true to his words here
TPaul in KY: "The thing is, IF the Palestinians were able to control their populace for a set period of time, it hopefully forces the Israelis to come & negotiate. The Israelis think they're bluffing 'Be peaceful & we'll talk' (thinking they'll never be peaceful). If you can do what they think you can't, then they get hoisted by their own petard."
Agreed. Again as a realistic solution, however, I don't beleive that will happen - at least not until after the Palestinians get their own state, like the Israelis did.
Two of the hottest women I know are Israeli-Yemeni sisters who run a wonderful restaurant hereabouts. Hot! Hot! Hot!
Do you think any of the little, barking Nazis around here recognize that the Arab nations took in very few of their fellow Arabs, leaving them to suffer in squalid refugee camps, instead, while Israel took in many many Jews no longer welcome in Arab and Muslim States such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Yemen, Ethiopia, etc??
significantly undermines the peace process
I'd go with just undermines. On one hand, it shows that Israel wants to hold onto the land, which undermines Palestinian moderates. On the other hand, it adds pressure to the Palestinians to end the conflict before it's too late. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Israel's weakness with respect to being reliant on U.S. "aid."
All indications are that the US will continue its strong support for Israel. But the financial aid, generous as it is, amounts to less than a half of a percent of Israel's GDP. We could get by without it. In fact, I'd like to see it gradually reduced as the peace process continues, for both countries' benefit.
It should be pointed out that, contrary to popular belief, Israel has never been the biggest beneficiary of American aid. Look at the money and troops (something which Israel never even asked for) the US sent (and still sends) to countries during the Cold War, such as Germany, Turkey, South Korea, Taiwan, Greece, etc.
And do you agree that if the United States were to condition their aid Israel on stopping settlement expansion that it would be perceived an intention of getting serious with respect to the Israeli/Palestinian peace process on the part of the United States?
This might sound canned, but it's true: You can't see the US as anything less than committed to a safe, secure Israel at peace with our neighbors.
Don't you people find it distasteful to talk about pretty Israeli women when your brave soldiers are engaged in murdering Palestinian children in Gaza? I guess you don't care as long as the victims are not Jewish.
Then after all, I am sure Germans busied themselves occasionally with how pretty their women were during the Nazi era with the same level of detachment!
The Israeli propagandist claim that Israel had withdrawn from Gaza and as a reward Hamas is raining rockets on Israeli town is bogus. Maintaining a large military force in gaza whose main function was to serve as personal body guards for the Jewish settlers at a ratio of about 10 soldiers per one settler was just too expensive. Very few Israeli reservists or regular army wanted any part of serving in the "strip". Israel wanted to use the resources spent on Gaza for the acceleration of the theft of the much coveted West Bank land. Israel kept a de-facto occupation by turning Gaza into the largest concentration camp/favela in the world, with full control over the Gaza air-space and access from the sea. The blockade, a clear declaration of war under international law had commenced even before the Israeli bogus withdrawal. No people anywhere in the world would accept such oppression and subjugation without armed resistance. It makes no sense for the Israeli civilians to live in peace when the Gaza civilians have been forcibly incarcerated in a squalid concentration camp by Israel.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
