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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
"Rovera [Donatella Rovera, an Amnesty investigator in Israel] has also collected evidence that the Israeli army holds Palestinian families prisoner in their own homes as human shields. "It's standard practice for Israeli soldiers to go into a house, lock up the family in a room on the ground floor and use the rest of the house as a military base, as a sniper's position. That is the absolute textbook case of human shields.
"It has been practised by the Israeli army for many years and they are doing it again in Gaza now," she said."
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/13/gaza-israel-war-crimes
None of Israel's claims about Palestinian factions using their own civilians as human shields have been corroborated by human rights organizations or foreign media (which is prohibited by Israel from going into Gaza so as they won't see what's going on there). Yet Israel continues to cynically use these claims to justify the wholesale slaughter of civilians.
Excellent post on the discrepencies between the armed might of Israel and the armed 'might' of Hamas.
For this reason alone (although there are others) don't you think from a tactical point of view (the 'tactics' being what steps get us our state), the Palestinians need to be a little more discrimatory and targetted in their use of violence?
Israel controls the land they want to control. I think from your posts, you would agree that there is no way Hamas/PLO/Fatah, etc. is ever going to win by conventional military means (i.e. Palestinian armored columns evict the Israelis in battles) their state of Palestine.
Therefore, the Palestininas have to understand they will get their state when Israel agrees to part with the conquered land. Would you agree with this take on the sad situation?
In a previous thread you stated that you were "an Israeli on the center-right part of the political spectrum."
I responded with:
"Do you support Israel's ongoing settlement expansion in the West Bank, JonathanInTelAviv?"
You didn't respond to my question in that thread, so I'm asking you again:
Do you support Israel's ongoing settlement expansion in the West Bank?
The Israeli Propaganda Machine is in full force in this letters section. It must be a full time job trying to stem the tide of awareness of the Gaza crisis that is occurring in the world and even in the US. Average american citizens are starting to ask questions, like 'Why do we support this indescriminant killing? Who is paying for all of this? Where do the weapons come from?' Eventually these questions lead to more questions. Then, we are told to mind our own business and not ask too many questions.
Jack In America
JonathanInTelAviv: "David, Israel did just that a few years ago when we left Gaza... your plan and mine (I was *for* it) failed big-time."
Not according to Dov Weisglass, then a top advisor Ariel Sharon, who explained that Israel's disengagement from Gaza was intended to freeze the peace process in order to "prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state":
"The disengagement is actually formaldehyde. It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that's necessary so that there will not be a political process with the Palestinians. ...
"[T]he rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did. The significance is the freezing of the political process. And when you freeze that process you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion about the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package that is called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed from our agenda indefinitely."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=485929
On a unilateral quest
The shortest of all routes
To shit in its own nest...
IMO, that's why the Palestinians need to 'think outside the box' and temporarily turn into Finns. Or at least make a concerted effort to show the U.S. (and the Israelis) that they can act with total restraint when necessary.
This would drive a stake through a devestating meme that has been allowing the Isaeli governments to not negotiate with the recent Palestinian govts.
The meme is: 'The Palestinians are barbarians who if we gave them their precious state would immediately begin plans for turning Israel into Greater Palestine'.
That one dovetails with another meme: 'The Palestininan leadership can't control their population at all. If we gave them their state, they would be ineffectual in stopping any rogue elements from continuing to harass Israelis (who would now be all in Israel proper)'
The above one says you can't take your boot off their neck, because they'll keep on fighting you & if they're going to do that you (Israel) are in a stronger position (militarily) if you are occupying them.
Given how the Palestininan leadership has acted in the last several years, I can understand how the above conjectures are believed by a significant portion of the Israeli (and American) public.
Don't you think the time is right to call for a pro? You know...a pro named Joe?
Israel's already thrown out the baby, the bath water, the whole kitchen sink.
So Jon, dial in da the plumber man?
Whaddaya think?
Let me introduce you
To Jon in Topeka
Kansas.
Paul in KY: "IMO, that's why the Palestinians need to 'think outside the box' and temporarily turn into Finns. Or at least make a concerted effort to show the U.S. (and the Israelis) that they can act with total restraint when necessary."
Ideally I agree with you. In an ideal world the Palestinians, while working to establish their own independent state, could and thus would stop all terrorists activities by their own people.
However: the Israelis, when they were working to establish their own independent state, could not and thus would not stop all terrorists activities by their own people - those terrorists activities instead only stopped after the state of Israel was established. Given that reality, what makes you think that the Palestinians could achieve what the Israelis could not in that regard?
Paul in KY: "The above one says you can't take your boot off their neck"
Why are the Israelis not only "keeping the boot on the neck" of the Palestinians but also continuing to expand settlements in the West Bank? Because as anyone who follows the conflict knows, continuing to expand settlements in the West Bank undermines confidence amongst the Palestinians in a negotiated peace process.
Also: why are we Americans continuing allow Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank? Because, and also as anyone who follows the conflict knows, all the United States has to do is make our "aid" to Israeli conditional on Israel stopping settlement expansion and that's what would happen. And since we don't do that we are instead actively helping to extend and inflame the conflict.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
Salon headlines in your mailbox
