The oft repeated Israeli line of argument goes a little like this:

Just as you gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette

You gotta break some Arabs to make a greater Israel.

Great.

Just gets greater all the time....

Jonathon,

I wouldn't give the so called Palestinians anything. I think Israel has given enough back to a race who can only see their death. As I stated in a previous post, the Palestinians have not earned the right to statehood since they are unable to throw off the shackles of ignorance and barbarianism.

I'm certainly glad the US is supporting you in this fight and am constantly preplexed at Europes appeasement toward the islamic terrorists and the states that sponsor them. I'm worried about our next administrations approach to the middle east and the strength to our one ally, Israel.

Thamks for your support markandkari.

Regarding Europe, I think there have been a few positive signs in the past few years. France and Germany replaced their anti-Israel and -west leaders with leaders who care. Most of eastern europe is pro-west, and surprisingly pro-Israel. The Netherlands have woken up to the dangers of unassimilated Moslem immigration, and are working on that problem. And the Islamist bombings (and constant car-b-ques in France) bring home the dangers of this worldwide problem, of which the Hamas and Hezbollah are part.

I guess it's all the UN blather that's most depressing. God be with you and your country.

A merely casual observation of the physical features of some of the most fanatical of them, Benjamin Netanyahu and Tzipi Livni for instance, indicates that they are not of Middle East ancestry at all. Miscegenation is forbidden by orthodoxy so that the "purity" of the tribe can be maintained so where did the European colouring - blue, grey, hazel eyes among the brown - come from? Well, according to Paul Kriwaczek in "The Rise and Fall of a Forgotten Nation", some peoples of the Balkans and regions bordering the Black and Caspian Seas were attracted to a monotheist religion and opted for Judaism rather than Christianity. This happened after the time of the Emperor, Constantine the Great, from the 4th century onwards - not exactly the "Biblical times" that are claimed.

Like almost everyone else, I was emotionally affected by Holocaust stories, by the tragic tale of a separate people expelled from their ancestral lands, until the events of the last thirteen days made me think more seriously about what Israel really represents. It seems to be a theocracy which has a caste system, and this is inimical to any genuine concept of democracy. It also has a ruling political clique (Olmert/Netanayhu) whose ancestors are far more likely to have been Slavonic, as Russians are, than Middle Eastern. The physical differences between the Israeli junta and the people of Palestine provide clues and suggest to me that Israel is based on religion alone. With all the "political correctness" that seems to pervade every aspect of American life, it is particularly paradoxical that the USA gives unstinting support to a racist country such as Israel and one which openly practises apartheid. I've checked the rules for Israeli citizenship and the facts are there; it's all about religion, isn't it!

There would be uproar in any country in Western Europe if candidates for the highest political office had to prostrate themselves before any organisation such as AIPAC but it's par for the course in the USA. How very, very puzzling unless you remember the advice "Follow the money". In the final analysis, all Americans will have to ask themselves if the game is worth the candle. A woman who lived about a mile down the road from us had gone to the US, married an American; she and their five year old daughter were on the secon plane that rammed the Twin Towers on 9/11. American/Israeli foreign policy has ramifications for the entire world.

Moron,

OK, I was wrong, you're not just a moron, you're also a racist and antisemite.

Massive retaliation may "work better" in the short run, but it doesn't help the underlying problem. In fact it adds to it. And as for "giving land back," I think I have pointed out that claim is less than its cracked up to be, particularly when Israel retains all control over Gazan borders and airspace (this means that Israel still legally controls the area and has used this control to starve the populace) and Israel still has not cleared all the settlements from the West Bank as promised.

What may work better in the long run is for Israel to find enough courage to negociate in good faith with the Palestinians. That would strengthen the hand of Palestinian moderates and give the majority of the Palestinians, who want peace, a reason to reject the Hamas extremists. But every bomb dropped, every child killed, every school destroyed, every hospital denied medical supplies, every ship carrying humanitarian aid blocked pushes this most desirable solution further and further out of reach.

Sadly extremists on both sides are trying to push the situation to the point where the only solution will be to completely exterminate the other side. Is that what you want Jonathan?

Massive retaliation may "work better" in the short run, but it doesn't help the underlying problem.

True. But until Hamas accept the Quartet's conditions, there is no prospect for a long run. And Israel will no longer accept attacks from Gaza.

What may work better in the long run is for Israel to find enough courage to negociate in good faith with the Palestinians.

You need to educate yourself T. Gray. Israel's been negotiating with Palestinians since the negotiations leading up the 1993 Oslo Accords. Remember them?

*Hamas does not accept even the idea of negotiations.*

That puts them in the rejectionist camp.

And they shoot rockets at Israeli cities.

That puts them, and everyone around them, in harm's way.

I am not going to give you chapter and verse, but I have educated myself enough that I know that too often Israel has had to be dragged to the negociating table by outside interests and been pressured to agree to terms that have been grudingly adhered to if at all. And the one Israeli leader since Begin who seemed to committ wholeheartedly to the negociation process was assassinated by Israeli rightwing elements, by his own people.

Negociation, true negociation, steady on-going negociation requires courage and committment and patience to bear real friut. And it should not be derailed by minor largely non-lethal provocations perpetuated by the most extreme elements of the other side. Hamas will negociate if the Palestinian people demand it. They are less likely to demand it if they are filled with hatred and grief. Israel's actions have driven more of them to support Hamas.

In truth, the real conflict is not between Israelis and Palestinians it is between the extremists of both sides and everyone else, the majority of Palestinians and Israelis who want and need peace. The other alternative, the one where one side eliminates the other will haunt the "victor" forever and the grief and shame will be unending. I don't believe that is what you want.