Jonathan,

You're missing one of my main central points, i.e. that Israel will never be able to make peace with Hamas. They do not want peace, as that would remove the reason for their existence, armed resistance to the oppressor. Israel must make concrete moves that will sideline Hamas by removing their support, i.e. by no longer appearing as the evil oppressor. One of the ways they could directly show this "better nature" to the Palestinian population at large, is by ceasing construction on occupied land in the West Bank, and by beginning the evacuation and removal of illegal settlements. Of course, as we have seen this brings Israel problems of its own with the militant settlers, however these are problems which must be surmounted if there is ever to be a long-lasting solution.

... Has anyone else noticed that this is happening during the last days of Bush's reign? Not surprised one bit to read that the US blocked a cease-fire proposal in the U.N. Security Council. This is more than myopia, it's collusion.

Malkatraz, you completely avoided my response to your central point, so I must conclude that you can't prove that Hamas wants peace with Israel. And I can't say I blame you for running away from this one; there's no way you or anyone else on this board could even try to prove that Hamas wants a genuine, permanent peace.

As to your other point, that Israel's making goodwill gestures to the Palestinian population will dry up Hamas support, you obviously don't understand mentalities other than your own. This isn't your fault, but you need to acknowledge that a fundamentalist Moslem Palestinian doesnt' think like you. If you don't, you can't say you really respect their culture. Israel WITHDREW COMPLETELY from Gaza. Their reaction was the Israelis are weak, so we can abuse them. And they have been doing just that for years.

Is that they didn't finish the job.

Keep on squeezing your pimples. I bet a lot of pus comes out but that there will still be plenty left.

I know that this is considered taboo to talk about in America because we are Isreal's biggest cheerleaders, but the fact is that Isreal was created by the British as one of their last colonial outposts--why is it okay for people of European descernt to go into a country filled with people of color and to unceremoniously take their land and make them refugees? and we think this is okay? It was done all over the world by the European countries to Asia, Africa, the middleastern nations which have all risen up and taken back their power. It's not going to be any different in Isreal. You will not have peace as long as you are oppressing people. We can spend all the money we want and justify the violence and the killing and the building of settlements and the apartheid like treatment of people of color, but until we get serious about justice for everyone, and both sides stop playing the victim card, there will be no solution. You can't bomb these people into oblivion. This is at the root of our problems with radical islam. This and the fact that we have been supporting autocratic middle eastern regimes that have been oppressing their own people so they aren't really worried about the Palestinians. The powder keg is rattling and it's going to blow soon. You can't keep oppressing people and not expect them to react.

why is it okay for people of European descernt to go into a country filled with people of color and to unceremoniously take their land

You're right, from now on we'll have lotsa ceremonies.

There is more than one Palestinian group and at the time even that Hamas was voted into power a poll showed that 66% of all Palestinians agreed with the two state solution. As for your assertion that Israel pulled out of Gaza to no effect, there is this according to the Wikipedia article on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

"Palestinian groups and Israeli Human Rights organizations (namely B'Tselem) have pointed out that while the military occupation in Gaza was ended, the Israeli government still retained control of Gaza's airspace, territorial water, and borders, legally making it still under Israeli control. Practically, they also point out that mainly thanks to these restrictions, the Palestinian quality of life in the Gaza Strip has not improved since the Israeli withdrawal. Furthermore, given that the Israeli army has run incursions into the Gaza Strip on various occasions, closed off its borders, and placed an embargo on the region, the Gazan economy has since gone into free fall. This has led and continues to result in warnings of the Palestinian population becoming more radicalized unless conditions improve."

So, the apparent Israeli "pull out" is less than cracked up to be and your assertion that somehow Palestinians don't think like we do is borderline bigotry as well as being untrue.

>There is more than one Palestinian group

No shit. There's lots of them. And every time you make a deal with one, the more radical ones go nuts.

>66% of all Palestinians agreed with the two state solution

Maybe. but Hamas & Islamic Jihad DON'T. Get back to me when you can prove otherwise.

Re: the wikipedia article, it doesn't mention that the borders were closed only after numerous attacks on Israeli civilians using weapons brought in to Gaza. Oh, and that Egypt has also closed the borders for similar reasons, though no rockets are being shot at them.

Let me ask you straight: If it were you and Israel withdrew from Gaza, would you shoot rockets at Israeli civilians? If not, why not?

>your assertion that somehow Palestinians don't think like we do is borderline bigotry as well as being untrue.

I didn't say Palestinians, I said fundamentalist Moslem Palestinians. I wonder if you've read the Hamas charter, and if you agree with it.

Those fucking bloodthirst Nazi Jews I mean Hamas, aw fuck, let's blame this on the Jews.

In the meantime I have a video of a 120mm mortar being fired from that UN 'school'. Also shows a secondary explosion the result of some ammo in the school going off. Fucking Jew bastards, and their world wide domination of camcorders!!!! Fuck em. I ululate in their stinking direction!!!!!