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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
Israel
Nation
Saint
NO
It AIN'T.
Hey, heads up...you can tell that shit to the tourists.
Not.
"By bombing universities, mosques, lines of graduating police recruits, farms and houses filled with women and children, Israel is violating the law of proportional response."
So if those places have kassam rocket installations built in and around them, they should not be bombed? Bullshit.
Smac:
"Yes, if the Gazans suddenly turned into self-denying angels, Israel's lot in the Middle East would be a lot easier."
You seem to be missing the point. My list has nothing to do with being self denying. It's all about what the Palestinians can do for themselves independent of what Israel does. As I said above, no one actually cares about the Palestinians; no one is interested in improving their lot. The Palestinians are merely being used to criticize the Israelis. If someone else were shelling them at this moment, the world would not care.
You seem to be missing the point. My list has nothing to do with being self denying. It's all about what the Palestinians can do for themselves independent of what Israel does. As I said above, no one actually cares about the Palestinians; no one is interested in improving their lot. The Palestinians are merely being used to criticize the Israelis. If someone else were shelling them at this moment, the world would not care.-- Amy Tuteur, MD
While blockaded? Why don't you consider the oppressed? Why take the view of the oppressors? How about an honest accounting of the situation? It is never easy when you are blinded by your own prejudice, but a clear view is what is needed. The U.S, should stop providing aid for this madness as it is not our fight. Foreign entanglements indeed.
"It's all about what the Palestinians can do for themselves independent of what Israel does."
Except, of course, they can't.
Egypt's an American client state: they are not going to take that wall down in Gaza.
Gaza's not spending billions in aid on sewage treatment because it's going toward, ummmm, food.
Palestinians - or at least a lot of them - don't want to become citizens in other countries because they're _refugees_ and the children of refugees, and they have this silly desire to go back to their homeland. Like, you know, Jews do.
Where is your proof that Gazans are using aid money to buy weapons?
And so on?
And, as I said, what's Israel supposed to do in all of this?
As for "As I said above, no one actually cares about the Palestinians..." - speak for yourself.
Did you just fall off the turnip truck or something?
But Kamiya's point is the US's unconditional support of Israel whatever it does. Why can't we talk about that?
OK Obama.. We know you have a ripped physique, and look good down the beach. That is not the exactly though the extent of change I envisioned in my new president..
Tell us where you stand on Gaza..
Anytime someone says anything constructive or in any way positive, even if not to Israel but to Palestinians, but without corresponding negativity to Israel, they get lynched.
Now, this whole article's moral calculus only works if you agree beforehand that Hamas equals people of Gaza. War against Hamas equals war against the occupied population of Gaza. Indeed that is what Hamas wants. Hamas wants the world to accept it as the legitimate ruler, so that everyone will have to negotiate with them and treat them the same as Abbas's government. Egypt and Abbas disagree, and probably quite a number of other arab states also do not support Hamas. However, that's not the position I see argued on these recent threads, where Hamas is "democratically elected" representative of Gaza. I put it in quotes, because I believe that after they performed the coup in Gaza and continue to brutally oppress those who belong to Fatah, they became totalitarian rulers, incompatible with democratic process.
If you consider that Hamas is using population of Gaza as human shields, stocking weapons in mosques, hospitals, and schools, suddenly they are no longer "democratically elected" representatives of Gaza, but oppressors of Gaza population, who bring misery to their people for political gain. Similarly, Israeli current war becomes not so different then the war against Hizbullah, which was never considered as the war against Leganon. Also in both wars, the local population suffered immensely. However, in Lebanon, Hizbullah would now be afraid to provoke Israel again, because they they know they will be blamed by people of Lebanon.
One last point I wanted to make is that I almost never see mentioned the fact that Israel's conflict with Hamas also includes Hamas holding hostage an Israeli soldier. Israel made it clear that they will not fully open their borders until that issue is resolved.
I agree completely with Gary that Israel needs to be treated like any other country. It is currently committing war crimes, and I have no desire to be a good-German while the Warsaw Ghetto (Gaza) is being bombed. I find Israel's cavalier attitude to be profoundly evil, and want no part in supporting it.
The Israel Lobby has long been a strategic threat to the US,and it is now a threat to Israel as well. Israeli prime minister Olmert has been begging the US to pressure Israel for its own sake.
It is noteworthy that our lawmakers are all lockstep (or it goosestep?) behind Israel, out of fear for their political lives. We should all be demanding that they put our interests first.
I think that the comparison of what happened in America's founding to the Israeli founding is simply abysmal in how little it appreciates the depth of the moral crime that was committed in America. An entire continent was purged, hundreds of ethnic groups are completely destroyed, their cultures lost. In America the genocide was done to an entire race. Also, the author acts as if the Indian reservations don't exist any more, they're still around and things in them are still really screwed up places. Also, the author completely ignores the other great original sin of slavery. These oversights show how utterly self-serving this comparison is, you cheapen the memory of what happened by having a measuring contest of suffering. This editorial is offensive and the author should not be published
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Salon headlines in your mailbox
