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Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:00 AM

Taking back the debate over Israel

Sick of right-wing Jews speaking in their name, progressive American Jews have launched J Street to change the way the game is played in Washington.

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Tuesday, April 29, 2008 07:09 AM

Good Luck J Street

Because you are going to need it.

Reading this article reminded me of an incident in which I called out the conclusions of an Israeli archealogical project for what they were - hopelessly distorted baloney. Now, this was to a jewish friend of mine - a good friend - who is a normally rational and open-minded guy. He flipped out, stormed out of the room and would not speak to me for days. We patched things up but I came to realize that he had an "Israel Button" that I could never ever push if we were to stay friends.

I've hoped that he will one day approach me on the subject after he's had an opportunity to reflect on the matter.

Don't get me wrong - I'm often critical of the Israeli government, but I recognize its importance and I support the state. And I guess that's the thing - you should be able to support something and be able to critically analyze it (even if you are not jewish!).

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 07:14 AM

Hamas inspired liberation theology?

Is it now "Hamas inspired liberation theology" to hope for "a two-state solution with a broad-based land for peace agreement; pursuing diplomatic solutions with places like Iran before military ones"?

Do I have to be a pro-Hamas anti-semite to oppose the Gaza blockade and the continuously expanding Israeli settlements?

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 07:34 AM

Why are progressive Jews like Barney Frank liberal on everything except Israel?

I will answer that with another question:

Imagine you woke up tomorrow to find Hamas and Israel magically changed places. Israel's Jewish population was crammed into Gaza and Hamas had Israel's weapons, its tanks, its rifles, its missiles, its airplanes. Now, predict the events of the next two weeks, and guess how many living Jews are left at the end of a month.

That is the answer to your question. The fantasy that there are two equal sides to every question, or two equal parties to every dispute, is not only absurd, it is a recipe for suicide.

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 08:10 AM

A positive move

I wish J St every success and I'm glad they're around. Such organizations help me reconcile the extremely high number of close Jewish friends I have with the fact that I have come to uniformly dislike every elected Jewish official I know of, without exception, even ones I formerly (and ignorantly) voted for. I am not a friend of Israel at all, though I used to be a supporter. I do support the right of Jews to live in Israel safely, securely, with self-determination, only not at the expense of Palestinians' right to the same. My father was abducted as a forced laborer for the Nazis and barely survived while my grandfather and two uncles died in Soviet camps, so it burns me up to see people USE the holocaust as an excuse to keep others in camps. It's disgusting and makes me despise Israelis. I hope they all work it out and live happily ever after (and indeed believe someday they will), but I will never like or respect them (or Hamas) and will never EVER again vote Democrat (or Republican). Hey, it's an emotional issue, what can I say.

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 08:22 AM

J Street

Always interesting to to read Kamiya's posts on how the Arab/Israeli dispute could be solved if only those pesky Jews would be more reasonable. Perhaps the experience of the Israeli left is instructive. The 'land for peace' movement died at the hands of the Palestinians several years ago. They realized, as did I, that the Palestinians are not interested in peace, rather they are interested in the destruction of Israel. This was proven when Arafat turned down Barak's peace offer and instead of making a counter proposal, started the war he had been planning. He was hailed as a hero by the Palestinian people who showed their true colors to the world (I guess Kamiya was not paying attention at the time).

The Israelis have realized that it doesn't matter how reasonable they are, the Arabs haven't given up their genocidal dreams (go read MEMRI.org if you doubt me). If you are damned if you do and damned if you don't you might as well go ahead. If giving up land brought peace, Sderot, next to 'emptied of Jews' Gaza would be a garden spot. The formula in the Arab world is land for war. Until that changes, there will never be peace.

I wish J Street the best of luck, we liberal Jews are not comfortable around the Christian fundamentalists who are promoting Israel these days (though I believe liberal Christians are just as uncomfortable around Rev. Wright), but the premise that balancing AIPAC, Kamiyas obsession, will solve the middle east problems is silly. That will have to wait until the Arabs give up their dreams of genocide. Could be a long wait.

BTW Gary, please explain how supporting corrupt, racist and sexist Arab dictators who run 99+% of the middle east is the liberal position. I never got that one. Also, there has never been an Arab Palestinian country, that is a fabrication. Israel was previously run by the British Empire and before that the Ottoman Empire.

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 08:28 AM

Desigirl

I don't know if you are or are not. that's your issue. What I do know is that Israel trucks in ~300 tractor trailer truckloads of supplied to Gaza each week including 1.5 million liters of fuel oil that has been suddenly sequestered by Hamas and locked up. I do know that Israel provides 75% of all of Gaza's electricity for free from their own powerplant in Ashkelon which is frequently fired upon, shelled by the very people they are delivering the electricity to. I do know that that the Egyptian army is building their own fence along the Philidelpi corridor to stop the flow of arms and people across the border. I do know that that Israel 2 weeks ago expanded the day work permit program from 15,000 permits/day to 50,000/day. I do know that the entire border of the West Bank and Jordan is utterly unguarded and open and the Allendy Bridge checkpoint between Jordan and the West Bank is completely controlled by Jordan which turns away about 1500 Palestinians per day from crossing into Jordan. I do know that the PA yesterday sentenced a 25 year old man to death by firing squad for relaying information to the IDF that resulted in the deaths of 4 armed men who were attempting to blow up a school in the West Bank. I don know that in the last 18 months 8300 rockets have fallen on Israel. I do know that the 50% lethality radius of a Palestinian 81mm mortar round is about 100 meters and that yesterday 17 of them were randomly fired into civilian neighborhoods in Sderot. I do know there is a contingent of American Special Forces lead by an American General in the West Bank training and arming 30,000 Palestinian paramilitary police.

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