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Letters
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:00 AM

Taking back the debate over Israel

Sick of right-wing Jews speaking in their name, progressive American Jews have launched J Street to change the way the game is played in Washington.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Wednesday, April 30, 2008 09:48 AM

Excellent article!

It is time for an honest discussion about Israel based on the facts that are evident elsewhere in the world. AIPAC prevents this, and perhaps its most insidious effect is to assure (otherwise liberal) Jews that anybody who criticizes Israel is ant-Semitic, so that they can safely ignore them (and please, remember to send a check in the mail!).

Israel is a foreign country. The second-most powerful lobby in Washington promotes the interest of a foreign country, and promotes disinformation, so that the mainstream American press is slavishly supportive. Not only is this bad for the US, it creates a moral hazard for Israel, and keeps it from solving its own problems.

Let's hope the new lobby attracts support, and further exposes AIPAC and its tactics.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 09:52 AM

Hamas and Israel

With regard to dhonig's letter: Hamas would not exist if it were not for Israel. Therefore, suggesting that they switch sides is fanciful. This is a political problem (where should the borders be?), which Israel is trying to solve by military means.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:26 AM

@readysf

The borders were set by the UN in 1948. Their current position is because the Arab world has repeatedly tried to change them (and ended up worse-off each time).

Also, last I checked, the Palestinians were also trying to use military means to change those borders - at least that's the stated goal of Hamas (making the Israeli/Palestinian border about 30 miles out into the Med).

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:39 AM

to cestmoi123

1. The playing field is not level, it is asymmetric. The best way to get rid of suicide bombers is to give them better weapons. Also, the best way for Israel to become secure is to draw firm borders, and respect Arabs as equals rather than 2nd class citizens...and I don't mean a la Gaza... which is a prison camp.

2. Israel's expansion plans are well documented and carefully calculated, such as by Avi Shlaim in "The Iron Wall".

3. Israel has three real alternatives"

--continue to manage US foreign policy via AIPAC, knock down the neighborhood... Iraq, then Iran, Syria.... and buy-off others such as Jordan and Egypt as long as possible. Problem is, we are going broke, and the rest of the world sees through this, only Americans are fooled, and not for much longer.

--become a real democracy, (Joel Kovel's new book is excellent) with one-person one-vote, and no favoritism. Problem, it ceases to be Jewish.

--give up weapons in a nuclear-free Mideast, and become a Jewish protectorate like the Vatican is Catholic.

Americans need a free and frank discussion, without lobby interference, and without the fear of being labeled anti-Semites.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:22 AM

Israel seizes land

To all who are ranting about Israel seizing Arab land, obviously they aren't very good at it. After 60 tough years, Israel only comprises <1% of the middle east. Maybe they need to try harder, or maybe they took over the west bank (from Jordan, not the Palestinians) and the Gaza strip (from Egypt, not the Palestinians) as a defensive action during a war and are willing to evacuate (as they did the Sinai) if being offered a real peace.

You may now resume your ranting.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM

Truth and Blog Clogs on the Israeli Palestinian Conflict and the Aipac Trial

Excellent piece. But many have led the way on this critcal issue for years (both non Jews and Jews). Vanessa Redgrave was hammered by Hollywood back in the 70's for bringing this issue up at an Oscar event. Former President Jimmy Carter, Bishop Tutu, the Palestinian Professor who died many years ago (can not remember his name) spoke about this issue for years Peggy and Art Gish, Norman Findlestein. Many Non Jews have led the way and some Jews for Justice in the I/P conflict.

Please give credit and acknowledgement to all of these brave people.

But few are talking about or reporting about the investigation and delayed Aipac Rosen espionage trial. Not even in the so called "progressive" blogosphere. Firedoglake and other blog sites generally have blog clogs when it comes to this issue.

The Blog clogs are starting to get a bit more honest about this issue but not much. They are as chicken shit as the MSM.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:12 PM

This is where the left turns right (wrong)

You hit the nail on the head! This issue needs to be discussed out loud on the MSM and the so called "progressive" blogosphere. This topic is where the blogosphere meets the MSM and is absolutely no different.

Anyone see Former President Jimmy Carter on Chris Matthews on Tuesday April 29th? Matthews repeated unsubstantiated claims about Syria and Carter politely smacked him upside the head after he did this. Matthews asked if Syria would recognize Israel and Jimmy replied "22 middle east nations have done this three times"

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 01:29 PM

Carter's "recognition"

is a non-starter. why? back to '67 borders, easy to say - but it includes jerusalem. during the time Jordan controlled it the Western Wall was an outdoor lavatory. this made perfect Koranic sense since that's where Mohammad tied up his horse, but it doesn't REALLY take into consideration jewish sensibilities. if you think the israelis are going to allow that possibility, you are mistaken. they want to keep their historic capital. but if THAT doesn't do it there's the "fair" consideration of palestinian exile rights. turning israel into a palestinian state by immigration or paying trillions while not even mentioning the million jews thrown out of arab states is just not in the cards. but then, the only reason they MADE this offer was so it would be REJECTED. And if you don't think Carter (via his Center) is not being paid Very Well for his carrying water for the arab desert you are very much mistaken.

Wednesday, April 30, 2008 01:56 PM

Regarding Carter

The best way to proceed is as follows:

1. Recognize that the Palestinians are Israel's problem, and Israel is our problem. It is our problem because the terrifying hold of the Israel Lobby

2. Open up information. Olmert himself recently said Israel was becoming an "apartheid state". Respected Israeli historian Benny Morris is actually promoting "slow genocide" to solve the Palestinian "problem". Chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu says that genocide is OK under Jewish Law. You can google all this, it is reported and discussed in Israel and elsewhere, but it is never discussed in the mainstream US press. What are we afraid of? Is it not anti-American and (ultimately) anti-Semitic to NOT discuss this?

3. Cutoff aid to Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. Force them all to compromise. Our support is a "moral hazard" for Israel, and is bad for it in the long term.

We will then see what the American people really think our policy should be, once there is a frank discussion of what the dangerous skewed policies promoted by AIPAC and its cohorts are doing to us.

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