I've posted too many letters to this thread already, but then jazz is a very important part of my life and like most jazz fans, I rarely have an opportunity to talk to anyone else who is interested in jazz.

So there has not been much discussion of rock vs jazz.

I have a number of rock CDs, versus hundreds of jazz CDs and sometimes play the rock stuff for a bit of variation. What do I have:

Beatles

Led Zeppelin

Stones

Cream

Clapton (Layla)

Floyd (Dark Side, Umma Gumma)

Fleetwood Mac

Santana (Abraxas, Lotus)

Hendrix (several)

John Mayall (with Clapton, and without)

Beachboys

Eagles

Spirit

Love

Janis Joplin

Quicksilver Messenger Service

Jefferson Airplane

Robert Cray

BB King

Otis Rush

Otis Redding

Aretha Franklin

Bob Marley (9 albums)

Magic Sam

As can be seen, these all fall under the heading of oldies. Some are kind of semi-rock and may fall under the heading of blues or soul or reggae.

All of them get played from time to time.

My observations are that:

1. Nearly all these albums contain some great numbers, but also some filler material or stuff that is not as good as the best stuff.

2. Very few stand up really well to repeated listening.

3. Songs are often let down by banal lyrics or poor singing. There are very few outstanding vocal performances, other than Robert Cray and Bob Marley.

I can hear the couple fighting right next door

Their angry words sound clear thru these thin walls

Around midnight I hear him shout unfaithful woman

And I knew right there the axe was gonna fall

It's because of me

It's because of me

I heard him shout who is he, she mumbled low

He said baby don't you lie to me no more

And I'm listening thru these thin walls silently

As he called out my name I was right next door

It's because of me

It's because of me

She was right next door and I'm such a strong persuader

That she was just another notch on my guitar

She's gonna lose the man that really loves her

In the silence I can hear their breaking hearts

At daybreak I hear him back and say goodbye

I can hear him slam the door and walk away

Right next door I hear that woman start to cry

I should go to her but what would I say

It's because of me

It's because of me [Robert Cray]

Overall Bob Marley's Survival is the outstanding album of lot, a perfect blend of passion, politics, singing, irresistible grooves, great tunes, and brilliant production.

We refuse to be

What you wanted us to be;

We are what we are:

That´s the way (way) it´s going to be. You don´t know!

You can´t educate I

For no equal opportunity:

(Talkin´ ´bout my freedom) Talkin´ ´bout my freedom,

People freedom (freedom) and liberty!

Yeah, we´ve been trodding on the winepress much too long:

Rebel, rebel!

Yes, we´ve been trodding on the winepress much too long:

Rebel, rebel!

When it comes to the great jazz CDs, I find that the quality of performance, the quality control, if you like, is much better,and that if a set is good, then it will be consistently good all the way through (for the most part). I also find that great jazz CDs can be played an almost infinite number of times without becoming stale, and that when you step away from them and come back, you tend to hear even more when you return.

Personally I think there is a lot to be said for big bands, because you can paint a more colorful musical picture if you have more shades in the palette. In rock there tends to be (for me) too much emphasis on the lyric and the main melody line, and insufficient attention paid to making sure that every byte of sound that reaches the listener is contributing to the whole gestalt--like Artie Shaw not having the drummer play the bass drum with his foot when the string bass was playing, because that created a redundant sound. I don't think you find that so much in rock.

I think one reason for the dubious "rock vs. jazz" controversy is the abundance of rock-music critics in the popular media (such as the Siskel/Ebert type pairing on NPR's "Sound Opinions") who call themselves "rockists," professing to like ONLY rock&roll (and usually a pretty narrow definition of r&r at that) while dismissing all other forms of music - ESPECIALLY jazz!

So right. I never seen anybody celebrate not-maturing-past-high-school any more than these two clowns.

DeRogatis and Kot think music history begins with Elvis and ends with the shit they don't like.

Now who are the narrow minded snobs?

If you WERE a musician, you'd understand. Your definition is far too limited, no where near the academic, and betrays your lack of knowledge of improvisation. Improvisation is more than "just a twist on it". Maybe if you read a book on harmonization you might begin to understand.

No I am not a musician.

I can play When The Saints and Silent Night on a harmonica, and that is about it.

But I can whistle, and every time I whistle I improvise on a melody. Maybe it isn't very good and maybe you would not want to transcribe my whistlings to put into arrangements, but then I am not a professional musician.

What great jazz improvisers have is the ability to play on their instuments what they hear in their head and to make it sound good. You think Charlie Parker read a book on harmonization? You think?

I have the original album (Takin' Off) that has Watermelon Man on it, though the version on Headhunters is probably better known. It is OK, but it not a current favorite of mine.

I don't smoke, do drugs, or drink alcohol, but jazz is my daily drug that I get high on, and all I can really report is what gets me high. I am a user, not a grower, so I really don't care what kind of fertilizer or grow lights the producers use, because either I get high on it, or it gives me a headache. If a particular brand of jazz gives me a headache, then I avoid it in the future.

Personally I like the sounds of vibes, guitar, and clarinet, so any band that contains all three is likely to be very addictive for me. Hence although I like Benny Goodman, I prefer him in the company of Charlie Christian and Lionel Hampton. For this reason I also swoon over Artie Shaw' last Gramercy Five.

Probably if there is a contemporary band playing these instruments together, I will enjoy their music.

I also like piano, especially as played with the clunky chords of Duke Ellington, rather than the note clusters of Oscar Peterson.

You see, even among the old masters I have my likes and dislikes. I have no doubt that there are modern masters who I would like just as much, but right now I have no need of them, and in my opinion anyone who wants to get into jazz, but doesn't understand it would be better off starting with Louis, and Duke, and Benny, and Ella and working their way forward to Miles and his crew, than trying to jump in at the deep end with crypto jazz works like Santana pop albums that are really jazz if only you were smart enough to know it.

Your musician friends are welcome to play for each other, but as long as no one is listening, what does it matter what they think?

And I don't care if Kenny G. has a diploma from an accredited colllege that entitles him to play out of tune. I still hate it.