Should any Iraq lessons be applied to Iran?

I'd be more forceful than you, Glenn: Yes, and quite a lot of them. These include:

• Fighting wars in places that don't like us is hard. Oops sorry, that's a Vietnam lesson.

• America can and should provide political support for changing a leadership we don't like, but ultimately regime change has to come from within. Oops sorry, that's a lesson from Iran circa 1979.

What did we learn, or at least reaffirm, in Iraq:

• Don't believe people with an agenda that doesn't mesh with American long-term goals.

• Don't believe people who have been so horribly wrong in the past.

• Having won the Cold War, an Us vs. Them mentality needs to be replaced by a sense of worldwide community. Hmm... that's a global warming lesson as well.

• The US news media is not merely conservative, it's very conservative. Hmm... that's a lesson from the Clinton years, not just the elephant in the room over Iraq.

"Iran is determined to acquire nuclear weapons."

Even if Iran were determined to acquire nuclear weapons, even if it succeeded, that would be a breach of its NPT obligations, but would not be a war crime or a crime against humanity. If it is determined, but fails, it remains guilty of nothing at all.

But those who are massively, blatantly, and unapologetically guilty of both enormous war crimes and crimes against humanity, sit in judgement of their projections of the intentions of the Iranian state, without a shred of evidence that anyone in Iran actually has these intentions.

This is not just a matter of power politics; this is a deep psychological and moral sickness in our culture. We seem now incapable of the most elementary of logical thought processes. The emotion and hysteria are everything; these are our "reasons", but reason itself we have abandoned. We are, as the reactions to your own thoughtful analyses demonstrate, actively hostile to reason.

The future of such a culture is bleak.

We are going to attack Iran no matter what they say or do. The only critical thinking that will be applied to Administration assertions, ghost written by Aiapc mouthpieces like Berman et al., will come from the few sites like this one that still have the capacity and will to ask even the simplest questions, let alone the critical analysis that Glenn applies.

An attack against Iran is the next step in the war against Islam, and will be certainly be read as such anywhere in the Muslim world. Obomba's denials will count for nothing. Cui bono?

Forever war, here we come.

One of these days he'll have to grow them, until then we'll have a great time listening to his sonorous voice uttering magnificent platitudes on "might be's" and "might have beens". As always trying to be all things to all . . . "If" the "facts" are correct, then words will have to be followed up with some sort of action (or the promise of same). Not suggesting attack (anything there will be complex, chaotic and very bloody), but there has to be some real quantifiable response on our part. Again all of that predicated on the "facts" being "correct".

One of these days he'll have to grow them,

Have you done that yet? How is it demonstrated? Through your eagerness to send other people off to fight?

"...actively hostile to reason." Indeed, it's as if stupidity spread like a disease in the 21st century.

Should we really be surprised that the corporatemedia is parroting establishment warmongering literally within days of Obama all but promising they would be the next lucky participants in the bailout bonanza?

Quid, meet this dude proquo...

Well, the upside is that an invasion of Iran would allow America to meld the otherwise disparate wars in Iraq and Afghanipakistan into one huge, continuous, swath of American-owned post-apocalyptic wasteland, but with location, location, location over some pretty amazing oil rights (yay!).

The downside would merely be billions more of wasted taxpayer money, hundreds of thousands more dead (foreigners - dead FOREIGNERS!), thousands more dead Americans, and the confirmation that America itself is The Evil Empire.

Hmmmm. What to do, what to do. Well, we really have no choice, do we? Not if we are all god-fearing Americans, by jingo!

The conclusion is obvious: post-apocalyptic wasteland, here we come!

Whenever the American military scored an onscreen hit, Lieberman pumped his fist and said, "Yeah!" and "All right!"

Who acts this way watching a movie? A child? Someone trying to visibly display their war-loving bona fides?

I would have loved it if some frustrated patron had ended up tossing a cup of ice or something at the Distinguished Gentleman From Connecticut and screaming, "Hey! Down in front! Shut the fuck up!"

No. Just shop normally and chew your stupid as cud as usual....

During his news conference, Obama asserted that Iran is "breaking rules that all nations must follow." I wanted to stand up and cheer Obama's new-found zeal for the rule of law. Can we now look forward to Holder's DOJ investigating Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al for war crimes, now that we take international law so seriously?

What should happen to nations that defy international law? Obama himself says, "Our preferred method of action is diplomatic. If that does not work, then other consequences may follow." Stern measures must apply to countries that defy their solemn treaty obligations, except when the US pursues preemptive wars, kidnaps persons on foreign soil, commits torture and all manner of other human rights violations.

To Obama, I guess, international law is great, except when applied to us. The US is a glorious exception.

Yes, politicians sometimes have to put actions behind words. For some words are the beginning and the end, to most of us, talk is cheap.

As far as putting people in harms way, yes, if absolutely necessary (hence the "if" and "Facts"). Have I served? Yep, still am, bad habit I know, but it's an "obligation" thing. Some understand, most don't.

Iran is pursuing nuclear power, which requires ~5% enrichment. Israel possesses a nuclear ARSENAL, which requires 95%+ enrichment. Israel possesses missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads and further possesses a few submarines capable of firing missiles. Israel has no declared orders. Israel has never signed the NPT. Israel is run by religious fanatics.

Which country is more dangerous? I'm programmed by US media, so I can't tell them apart. No, wait, I'm programmed by US media, so I know that Iran is evil and Israel is our very, very good friend.

Isn't the Gulf of Tonkin near Iran? I'm sure it is. And those DAMNED Iranians are probably firing torpedoes at our heroic soldiers and sailors right this very minute.

Has no one noticed the war drums being beaten for years on end, now, to tenderize our brains for an attack on Iran? My two cents say that Israel is the cancer in our brains that ought to be removed. Islam is no threat to anyone. Zionism is.