Heru: I would think that if someone was interested in using Ghandi as a template, one would be also interested in the current political climate in India. This was Adnoto's response to Macgupta, who took him up on the offer; in fact, its his response when you call him to actually know anything about these NAMES. That's all they are to him, names--appeals to authority. Its quite obvious that he knows very little about the impact or history of either movement, what direct-action is, or what its history is. I imagine writing the names Bayard Rustin or Vernon Johns would send him scurrying to Wikidpedia.

Previously, you mischaracterized Macgupta's statement as proclaiming that nothing was wrong in the US. Another error, when it couldn't have been closer to being exactly the opposite. Yesterday, I caught you in an enormous fib--something I'd sooner expect from a precocious five year old. The day before that...and on, and on.

Some people say you're a dumb liar and deserve scorn and ridicule. But as we discussed yesterday, it seems much more likely that you suffer from aphasia. Don't worry, we're with you.

Adnoto: thank you for admitting that you need to use Greasemonkey to ignore my arguments. I was wondering why you were so content to always appear a clown. If you were half as good at mounting a movement as you were at being a troll, we'd live in a utopia by now.

Then o-cow has a cow and calls him, in effect, a hypocrite. Does anyone really think he can pass logic class with that sort of thinking? -- heru-ur

lol...Is that nincompoop still flailing around trying to get my attention? Classic.

Two words o'fer: Greasemonkey script.

Digby wrote:

He's going after "rogue interrogators" who inflicted more torture than was strictly allowed.

My money is on that outcome.

Then Obama can say that America runs on the rule of law without upsetting the elites. Just like Abu Ghraib and so many other examples from history.

QED.

No, they are not. Sorry, you are just wrong.

The easiest part is morality. Morality is not following the local law and/or custom. Morality is far more basic and easy to state. Do unto others as they should do unto you. Or, less biblical: never use force, fraud, or coercion except in self-defense.(*) Or, more eastern: love the other with all your being, even when he is not lovable to you.

I will not even touch economics, as it is too late on a Sunday here and I have other activities to attend to. However, someday next week I will explain that part also.

---------

(*) possibly.

heru-ur, the extent of what you do not know is frightening. Maybe one day, ondelette and myself can lay out a history of India after independence and the myriads of bad things that have happened. And the myriad and a half good things too.

Yes chief, you keep trying to tell yourself that. I am sure that the two of you know so very much more than the BBC at least. Of course, what you don't know is basic morality. So, I do wonder how you will get around that obstacle when you prepare your "lessons".

What will our snowflakes tell me next? That India is not perfect? Wow --- what a concept, a non-perfect government and society. But, you did not even attempt to answer how many black torture sites they have around the world. How many countries have they invaded. How many wedding parties have they bombed. How many covert government overthrows have they tried.

How many of their minorities do they have locked in steel cages as compared to here?

Any answers to those Mr. America is Wonderful??

we aren't all of one mind like Borg and many of us would like nothing better than to see the likes of Yoo, Bybee, Bradbury et al afforded proper process and then disbarred and criminally prosecuted if warranted--they are an embarrassment to many in the profession (others are indifferent and some are supportive of Yoo).

But the reality is that "law/politics/economics/morality" are so intertwined as to be inseparable. Sometimes I wish it were otherwise particularly when it comes to things like human/civil/consumer rights and the environment, but the law is what it is--a very blunt imperfect tool made by elites to serve elite interests. Sadly the law is almost always a "lagging indicator" of trends/movements/culture (and maybe for good reason but that's highly debatable).

Equally obvious is that an individual or group's efficacy using the law as a tool for accountability or change is a function of money. The law has always served the interests of political/economic elites better than other groups and will continue to do so unless average citizens are willing to fund endeavors like the ACLU, EFF, and NLG . . . to counterbalance the public's interests. But that's a tough sell to most folks. But more importantly people have to become better informed more involved "citizens" if they want change. And that's an even tougher sell.

And as far as holding our own accountable it ain't over 'til it's over.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-yoo2-2009jul02,0,1619065.story

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/01/much-ado-about-padilla-v-yoo.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/us/19detain.html?_r=1&em

http://www.dailycal.org/article/105468/professor_yoo_may_face_criminal_investigation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050502219_2.html?sid=ST2009050502426

http://www.pubrecord.org/law/726-doj-investigation-into-yoos-legal-work-reaches-damning-conclusions.html

**By the way I wasn't offering "student loans and mortgages" as a "legitimate" excuse why lawyers and judges will never "rise up" and demand change--I think lawyers in this country still believe in using the legal processes available, (no matter how excrutiatingly slow they may be) and that those processes haven't yet been exhausted.

I am utterly gobsmacked: the NYT's piece on Cheney was the lead story on NBC's Nightly News tonight. They usually reserve that slot for far more important news like Sarah Palin's excellent adventures.

At least they ran it, which means "Real America" probably got their first report (if you could call it that) on Cheney's atrocious criminal behavior. Although they did report it "on balance" -- this is what the Democrats say and this is what the Republicans say and the truth must reside in the middle.