I wish there were professional organizations of lawyers who took an unequivocal stand on this.

-- macgupta

I wonder why that doesn't and hasn't happened. I mean I wonder beyond the obvious cowardice that so deeply infects so many facets of the professional class of our society. It seems so obvious that attorneys throughout the states and the world should by now have organized a non-stop push to shame holder and Obama for the purpose of exposing the rank duplicity of not fully investigating this travesty. If Glenn Greenwald can speak about it honestly, forcefully and consistently why not thousands of others who are in a position to be heard and listened to and not ignored?

Hell, even Obama is not Obama. At least he's not the Obama he said he was when he was running for election. About the only change Obama has brought to Washington is the change between what he said he was going to do as a candidate and what he has done as President.

In any case, I find the term "Blue Dog Democrats" to be much too polite. I believe they should be known henceforth and forevermore as "Vichy Democrats".

Yes, we can only hope that Eric Holder will somehow come around to doing what is right.

I mean, we can only hope. We will sit here, keeping our fingers crossed, while the black box of American law enforcement operates in its opaque and inaccessible way. Maybe the output will go our way. Maybe not! Who knows?

See, there is one principle which is far more important than any other here, which is that we as citizens can, and should, do nothing, not get involved, just extend our middle fingers to the establishment and really let 'em have it.

So let's hope away! Being a politician means by definition that you are completely unbending, a totally rigid pillar (or whatever metaphor Holly McLaughlin prefers) of fixed belief that no external force can influence.

As for Glenn Greenwald's absolutist demands for high-level prosecutions, what could he possibly be thinking? Think about what would have happened after the second world war if we'd insisted on that. Who can imagine expending the political capital to try high-level leaders of a defeated regime and hold them to account for their policies? It never would have worked.

Or consider those French lunatics who wanted their government to try Maurice Papon for his Vichy-era crimes against humanity — 50 years after the fact! No reasonable person could ever seriously expect a nation to conduct such an investigation into one of its own, deeply respected aging statesmen.

Imagine if Papon had been tried, and then found guilty, and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Imagine the damage to French society of all that partisanship. Their country would be in ruins by now.

Remember, if Holder does what we here feel is necessary, he is going directly against Obama. If Obama did what we feel is necessary, he'd be going against a vague coalition which we can outline in the Senate (all Republicans, Lieberman, various Blue Dog Democrats) and the interests and voters that lie behind them. In other words, the political risk and therefore the courage needed, is much higher for Holder than for Obama.

On the other hand, perhaps it is easier for Holder to take the long view. E.g., should he even worry about whether Obama gets reelected?

I wish there were professional organizations of lawyers who took an unequivocal stand on this. While it might not stiffen the spine of a President, it might do so for a wavering Attorney-General. Namely, the knowledge that in the opinion of many, many respected colleagues, he will be doing the right thing.

A good question, in the midst of another good post.

We can know that we tortured men to death and do nothing, because we are desensitized to killing. We routinely kill innocent men, women, and children around the world on the flimsiests of excuses.

Our government had know for years that Saddam and Iraqi Baathist Party were secular and not in league with al Qaeda at all. Yet we invaded Iraq and decimated an entire country based on false information --- that any thinking American knew in their heart was false.

So Glenn, what is so different here that makes it any worse than bombing wedding parties for sport? Not any is my answer. Therefore, I wager that the rulers in DC will not go after anyone here other than a scapegoat or two.

having to rely on Balthazar Garzon and the Spanish inquisition for justice? At least he's starting at the top:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/spain-launches-criminal-investigation-us-torture-gitmo

Will the Spaniards also fold when the US threatens to close bases and cut off military assistance funds or when Zapatero gets voted out?

On a brief piece on NPR at the top of the hour, they described what was done to detainees as "harsh interrogation techniques, some of which have historically been considered torture".

Some progress, but not enough. I would have, at least, added "and legally" to "historically".

Why does this all have that slow motion feel of a crash happening? I saw a crash once just ahead of me, the funny thing was how there was no sound at all.

This should be a warning to the "underlings." Work for the administration at your risk and peril, but it is true there are rarely any who resign,and those who do are never heard of again due to the media blackout.

Is this another cover-up for the preceding administration? It certainly looks like it. It gives off the feeling of walking on quicksand, the kind where banana republics go to die.

then it must be shot down, not just at places like this, but everywhere.

I guess that Holder and Obama must be that afraid of the CIA/military complex...or, the CIA must have something so explosive on the Democrats that would blow them out as much as the Bush Republicans.

Only an independent prosecutor will save us now....anything else allows the perpetrators to get off scot free...and simply sets the stage for the next wannabe dictator to assume these powers.

And to think I once believed that Obama would promise real change from the Bushies....too bad for me.

Anthony