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Letters
Saturday, July 4, 2009 12:00 AM

The NYT calls Iranian interrogation tactics "torture"

Techniques which the paper refuses to call "torture" when used by the U.S. magically transform when used by others.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Saturday, July 4, 2009 02:06 PM

Murdoch didn't buy the NY Times

He bought the NY Post, which I continue to find to be one of the ultimate ironies of American history since it was founded by a man who would undoubtly despise Murdoch as much as one can despise a man, and likely challenge him to a duel.

Not that Hamilton wasn't a polemicist who wasn't averse to engaging in character assasination when it suited his goals. But his were generally reality-based. Murdoch is an amoral fabricator.

In a weird way, Murdoch represents a partial British re-taking of America, by way of Australia.

Saturday, July 4, 2009 02:06 PM

The Best Facts Are The Made Up Kind

Ever the educator, Calamine informs us, like Miss Manners, what's simply not done on given holidays. No civil rights talk on MLK Day? Clearly he's never attended a rally. Maybe he was busy. No theology at Christmas? When Bill O'Reilly declares War each year? No tough love on birthdays, which are notoriously tantrum-prone? Perhaps he was never a child, either.

Try harder, Calamine.

Saturday, July 4, 2009 02:10 PM

Start your own news agency

Frankly, I am sick and tired of the whining.

I have been hearing this, and reading this, since the days of Iran-Contra, and all the Salon articles and all the Free Press exposés and all the blogs and all the pamphlets don't seem to change a God-damned thing.

First of all, Obama's supporters need to admit to themselves that they were bamboozled, hoodwinked, taken, had. Without that acknowledgement, they can't move forward.

Second of all, you need to get active. Gleen Greenwald is doing a great job - but that is just it - he is doing. He has a platform, he has the necessary credentials so that the Establishment cannot dismiss him, and he applies pressure, which these a-wipes feel. They have to respond to him. He matters. Salon Letters don't matter. It's just whining, and pretty much internal bitch-slapping. Everytime I log on all you people are doing is calling each other names. It's pathetic.

There are enough smart people here, with enough cumulative disoposable wealth, and enough resources, to start an independent news agency. People have done it in America for hundreds of years - with much, much, less - yet with all of our modern-day technology and know-how, we sit back and let mega-million corporations do all the "newsing" for us.

What happened to American know-how? What happened to the American spirit of "can-do!"?

I thought the Huffington Post was a good start, but they of course are just another pack of Zionists shills (in Hollywood, gee, go figure).

You guys have enough. You have the brainpower. You have the wealth. You have the resources. You have everything you need. Stop complaining, and start doing.

********************************************

July 4th is "Independence Day." Today we celebrate our Revolution in which we collectively overthrew a tyrannical government, and asserted our own independence. We did it with guns, with newspapers, with community activism, and with confidence. Today, these ideas, and this proclamation, is tantamount to Domestic Terrorism.

Our ancestors are ashamed at their progeny's lack of resolve.

Put down the anti-depressent medications that your therapists have convinced you that you need - all of your ancestors, from the dawn of time, managed to deal with life: famine, disease, war, death, poverty, slavery, dismemberment, etc,; yet you, living in the most materialistically and informationally advanced civilization the planet has ever seen, just can't seem to cope with daily life. Amazing.

Turn off the television that brainwashes you into believing that you are powerless, stupid, ugly, weak, and that you don't have enough money or intelligence or good looks to make your own life better.

Stop buying and reading the newspapers that tell you what is important and what is not important, what to believe and what not to believe, who to hate and who not to hate.

Stop believing the insidious, subliminal propaganda that is designed to keep you down - that you cannot trust your neighbor; that your fellow Americans are not smart enough or moral enough to cooperate with you; that the same ideas and philosophies that brought people out of tyranny and into freedom from time immemorial are now dangerous, evil, and bad.

Independence begins in the mind. The rest is easy.

Saturday, July 4, 2009 02:22 PM

@ Steele The First

"Independence begins in the mind. The rest is easy."

-- Steele The First

---------------------

Interesting and forceful statement (as were other of your statements), but I don't see how the rest is "easy." Seems to me that once one frees one's mind, that's when the real battle starts, the real battle being the living enlightened in an unenlightened world.

But, more power to you.

Saturday, July 4, 2009 02:24 PM

Norm

But when the unprincipled, greedy elite have bought up all the power structures (including the media) and therefore have a psychological lock on the majority of the populace, what can one do to viably compete with their lying and/or misguided propaganda? Violent revolution? In this new technological era of the eternally shrinking power of the individual?

Don't look at me...wasn't I asking you?

Saturday, July 4, 2009 02:26 PM

Happy Independence Day!

I like what you are all saying on this Independence Day today. Having these discussions seems a fitting way to celebrate what is good about us as United Sates, and to consider what is not good.

It is hard to reconcile our use of torture with our ideals.

We are in a crisis.

It is hard to know what do.

Some wish that we'd stop voting for Democratic party members. It's possible to get what they mean by that, but for most people most of the time, voting Democratic is the most useful thing to do with one's vote. (It's not the only only thing to do to help get through the crisis, only the most useful thing to do with one's vote.) Withholding one's vote doesn't seem useful per se, but can make one feel better. So there is value in that.

The cognitive dissonance referred to is interesting, that contradiction between our national myths and our actual behaviors. Maybe it's not a United States trait, but rather a human trait, tied to tribalistic behavior that actually had some utility when competing for resources, a base impulse that we should resist (now that resources are abundant), if only we had some collective self-awareness. But we don't have that, and many of our brothers sisters seem developmentally incapable of ever acquiring that kind of self-awareness. Nevertheless they are our brothers and sisters. What do we do then - other than despair?

Find some peace along the way maybe? Remember to celebrate sometimes? Even our victims the world over find ways and times to celebrate, I am sure.

Maybe we could find some peace along the way by taking a kind of "systems approach" to our problem, the problem of being human, which unfortunately also means being an animal, sometimes a vicious predator. It means that alleviating a lot of human suffering might not be achievable because of our animal traits, but that we must try anyway, even absent any guarantees of success. We could recognize that all the disagreements are part of a process. We could humbly acknowledge that there is no one right answer to the questions: How are we to be? How are we to act?

Humans are not separate from nature; we are a force of nature - like a hurricane or a tornado or an earthquake or a bear. All of these are destructive, but all of these play an essential role in the ecosystem.

[This post is too long; I hope you haven't wasted too much time reading it. You all just got me thinking.]

Who really knows what to do? Everyone is right in there own way? Even those who are telling others not to do whatever it is they doing! It is a process, a messy process.

If I was asked "What to do?" I might say (non-sequitur)

1. Follow your dreams.

2. Stand up to bullies.

3. It's better to be nice to people.

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