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Thursday, July 2, 2009 12:00 AM

The still-growing NPR "torture" controversy

The media outlet's use of Bush euphemisms sparks a much-needed debate on journalistic standards.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 08:19 AM

To uncle G

I will tell you exactly what I think:

Roper: You would give the Devil benefit of law?

More: Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, if only for my own sake.

I believe in the Declaration of Independence where it says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their maker with cewrtain inalienable rights, among which are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Since these enemies are people, they have rights whether they are citizens or not, simply by dint of being among "all men."

They may be my enemies, but the minute I forget that they are men with rights and the ability to reason, and that I have an obligation to act accordingly if I am to claim the title of civilized human being, I become like them and destroy myself. I act rightly not for them alone, but for me and my vision of myself as a man, a citizen, and a father. In combat, they can be killed; as prisoners, they must be treated as the law and our honor demands.

Thursday, July 2, 2009 08:19 AM

Feliatrix

An Ivy League education

Man, that just ain't what it used to be. I always thought the purpose of higher learning was to seek truth. I stand corrected. Add Georgetown to the list of growing institutions (Stamford law school, Harvard business school, etc.) that have produced and/or employ dazzling mediocraties.

When my husband and I were last on vacation we met a gentleman who taught history at a small, elite liberal arts college. He spent the majority of his time talking with us bemoaning the fact that too many of his students were uninterested in true learning and that curiosity and pursuit of truth and excellence were a thing of the past (in his teaching experience).

When my husband asked him what he attributed this to, he laid it at the feet of money. The fact that the ranks of those seeking higher degrees would soon only be attainable by those who had great wealth, but not necessarily similar intellect or motivation to achievement. He noted that, while it was by no means applicable in entirety, there was a striking difference in the (lack of) effort put forth by his more privileged students.

I had to wonder if his observations might be shared by other educators in similar circumstances, but looking at the roster of educators Glenn lays out in his first paragraph, I'd have to say that the educators, themselves, have now become part of the problem and that our institutions of education have, themselves, become "institutionalized".

So there's your argument against the affirmative action policy known as "Legacy Admissions".

p.s. Glenn - you left Condoleeza Rice out, but someone's likely already mentioned that. ;-}

Thursday, July 2, 2009 08:20 AM

Media ethics

is an oxymoron.

Thursday, July 2, 2009 08:20 AM

GG channeling Bill O'Reilly?

I'm reading a lot of stuff like this:

"only that people like her who opine pedantically on controversial matters have an ethical obligation to engage critics of their views."

It seems she's taken some tough questions on those NPR shows -- they haven't exactly been coddling her. Not sure why she should be repeatedly taken to task for not addressing you directly.

Thursday, July 2, 2009 08:20 AM

--Uncle G

May I call you Uncle, G?

You wrote:

* We do not decapitate on film and publish...

But we do destroy videos of our people killing and/or maiming helpless prisoners. Perhaps we would be better off if we just put those videos on alJazera and let the world determine if we are treating them properly. We also make videos of some of our activities in the war, such as the effect a .50cal explosive bullet from a Barrett M107 has on the human head, even when taken from almost a mile away (the head explodes - did you know that?).

* We do not drag the bodies of our dead enemies in the streets, hang them from bridges, and burn them

No, Uncle, but we do pack them in ice with just enough of their bloody heads peeking out of the body bag so that when our soldiers pose with them, the viewer will know that it was a real man inside the body bag and not just the ice. Still, I suppose you're correct, we don't hang the bodies from bridges. We hang them from ceilings while they're still alive. Hurrah for us, eh? Hip Hip....jolly good show, huh?

Two points:

1) Our military personnel expect to be tortured if captured and they are trained for it.

That's not correct. Only a very small percentage of our military personnel receive any training whatsoever on resisting or surviving torture. The rest are told that it's against the Geneva Conventions to torture prisoners and are warned that they will be subject to Courts Martial if they engage in it. Of course, they aren't told that higher ranking personnel in the armed forces, and their civilian bosses will not be held accountable for instituting practices and policies which encourage troops to torture, regardless of what they were taught in boot camp.

2) Militant jihadists do not accept the Geneva Convention - and the convention will not work with only one side is on board.

Are you accusing George W. Bush of being a jidhadist? You realize, of course, that he refused to recognize that the Geneva Conventions applied to prisoners of ours taken in his War on Terror. There is no reason why the Conventions (Please note the little squiggley letter at the end of that word for using it allows whoever is reading your words to know that at least you are familiar with the title of the treaty, if not the contents.) won't work even if only one side recognizes them. Just because our adversary uses torture, does that mean we must use it? I would submit that we should use techniques that have been proven to work in providing information, and torture isn't one of them.

James, join the real world.

No thanks. Your world is populated almost exclusively by assholes. Your world will be held responsible for our troops being mistreated and tortured as a matter of course, as opposed to being generally well treated by their capturers. If you doubt this, please revisit the experiences of our troops which were captured by Iraq during the first Gulf War. Without exception, they were treated in accordance with the GCs. For that, we've tortured and humiliated Iraqis (and others). Payback's a bitch, Uncle. You're lucky you won't be on the receiving end of it. Frankly, your world sucks.

--Cousin J

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