I just now found the following posted in comments by ezedidit on the thread, "Suppressed Facts ..."

Major General (ret.) Antonio Taguba had it right::

From Physicians For Human Rights [link here: http://brokenlives.info/?page_id=23

After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts, and reports from human rights organizations, <>there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.

Comment linked at sig.

There really is no honest "debate" about whether or not NPR should be calling the war crimes committed by our government Torture. You don't kill people with "tough interrogation tactics".

In a conversation about a subject of this magnitude, for you to come off with the straw man and silly but obnoxious comment that you did earlier seems way beneath the degree of contemplation that the issue deserves. "Immature" might well describe your outburst.

"Our language in general is totally evaluative and loaded with meaning, and so whatever someone uses, if someone else disagrees with it, then that language is wrong."

A stated policy that the truth is a secondary consideration to not offending those who don't like that truth seems pretty absurd coming from a journalist. I think she was having a hard time w/ Garfield's questions and inadvertently boiled her argument down to it's essence, which was pretty ugly.

is unable or unwilling (or both) to face Greenwald's righteous wrath. Of course, Shepard is a hack for National Propaganda Radio, so what can you expect?

Yes, Bill Moyers had the same problem two years ago. He invited leading neocon chickenhawks William Safire, Tom Friedman, Charles Krauthammer et al. on his program. They refused.

Ruth Marcus of the Washington Post is typical of that statist, neocon rag. Let's hope the Post goes belly-up, and the sooner the better.

Ha! Just kidding.

What I find the most ridiculous about the "ombudsman's" position is that she suggests journalists, "describe the techniques," rather than use the word torture, or the Orwellian phrases which we have become so familiar with. This is incredibly impractical, and she must know that this is incredibly impractical. Therefore if the word torture is banned (or soft-banned, as it seems to be), journalists will inevitably revert to using the Orwellian phrases, just so they don't have to "describe the techniques" each and every time they avoid using the word torture.

Sorry if that paragraph was a little tortured. But to illustrate the point, if the reporters at NPR took the ombudsman seriously, a segment might sound something like this:

Dennis Kucinich attempted unsuccessfully to introduce a bill into the House to investigate the pouring of water on detainees' heads, electrodes to their testicles, sleep deprivation and extreme temperature exposure today, but was prevented from doing so by an arcane House minority procedure. Kucinich said that the pouring of water on detainees' heads, electrodes to their testicles, sleep deprivation and extreme temperature exposure amounted to torture. Here to talk about the pouring of water on detainees' heads, electrodes to their testicles, sleep deprivation and extreme temperature exposure investigation bill is Cokie Roberts.

Whereas it could be written a lot more coherently as:

Dennis Kucinich attempted unsuccessfully to introduce a bill into the House to investigate the use of torture by the Bush administration, but was prevented from doing so by an arcane House minority procedure. Here to talk about the torture investigation bill is Cokie Roberts.

Thanks for calling me to order! The road to hell is full of good intentions. Both of you are right, and I was foolishly wrong. "Pouring water down the nose for 20 seconds" is controlled drowning - if it is controlled. I should have informed myself better. But then, what is this thread for if not for correcting errors, add information and illuminate minds? At least, at times it works ....

Thus folks, let's throw out "waterboarding", it's controlled drowning!

Really mature. Just say that anybody who thinks waterboarding is not toruture is obviously evil and the argument is over. You win. Other people can worry about the substance of the argument. Good work.

Seriously immature isn't it Riverhill? Its like all those people who think adults raping children is just plain evil. Its all right for them isn't it? But as usual it leaves the necessary discussion of the various nuances and aspects involved to be conducted by more mature adult individuals.

There are definitions to the word "torture". Waterboarding, in particular fits all of them. Calling it something euphemistic is giving the people doing it a pass. There isn't any virtue in ladening down any news program with euphemisms, it's a disservice to the public, that they are supposed to be informing. It's bullshit, plain and simple.

This is exactly why I stopped giving money to NPR -- when they began to talk in circles around Bush administration policy. In trying to represent "all sides," they end by condoning torture. It pains me -- the practice of torture goes against everything this country stands for.

...You’ll receive this priceless DVD, unavailable in fine stores everywhere: “The Best of NPR,” featuring news, celebrity interviews, and musical excerpts of some of the obscurest bluegrass artists blue-grassing today. Call within the next FIFTEEN minutes, and you’ll ALSO receive the bonus disc, “All the President’s Media,“ featuring Alicia Silverstone (Clueless, Scooby Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed) as White House stenographer Alicia Shepard (clueless media monster unleashed), in her brave battle against the forces of non-Beltway subjectivity. Thrill to the memories as Ms. Sheep Herd, against all odds and common sense, refuses to back down in her noble fight for “nonpartisational contextualism” -- even to the point of rejecting the simple meaning of words!

With a pledge of just 500 dollars, you’ll ALSO receive a bonus disc featuring Ms. Sheep Herd’s legendary appearance on “Inside the Actor’s Studio,“ in which she candidly admits “I’m not really an ombudsperson, I just play one on the radio,” -- thereby setting of a lively exchange with the show’s host regarding her gut-wretchingly real performance. This is the FULL, unexpurgated interview -- unredacted for television!

Thrill to the memories of Miss Sheep Herd going toe to toe with legendary hardballer James Lipton, as he unleashes the enhanced interrogational techniques that are his inimitable trademark. Relive her riveting moments in the hot seat as she squirms to questions like: What are your favorite curse words?” (Glenn Greenwald)…and: “If you weren’t a world-class steno-journalist, what other profession would you like to try?” (propa-journalist), and finally: “When you go to hell, as you surely will, and the Devil meets you at the Surly Gates, how would you like him to greet you?“ (“Um…I think what I'd most like to hear him say is: "Here in the Seventh Concentric Circle, otherwise known as the Torture-Enablers Hot-Wing, we’re all about looking forward, not back.”)

Just think, these priceless memories can now be yours to own -- forever!

All this, and a tote bag too!