First, I put this up on the previous thread, but maybe it should be here. Amnesty International is warning about tortures, forced confessions and the possibility that these will be used for sentencing people involved in the protests to death. (Newsweek's arrested reporter has supposedly already given such a confession on TV).

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/detained-political-leaders-at-risk-of-torture-20090629

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Now for the non-OT part. The Reality Kid observes,

1) In addition to the deaths, there are many detainees who may be suffering a “living death” as a result of their treatment, i.e., a complete breakdown of their persona/personalities and the consequent traumatic effects that may afflict them for the rest of their lives.

2) The more intrusive/physically abusive methodologies often result from the sense of empowerment that the non-instrusive/abusive methodologies fuel, i.e., once you have seen how easily you can break down a person mentally, it becomes easier to abuse them physically.

3) I believe the fact that the physically abusive methodologies are allowed the air they’ve been given is, in part, driven by the need to keep hidden – to protect and preserve – the key methodologies that the US wishes to continue using, i.e., the non- or less-physically abusive methodologies such as sleep deprivation, isolation, disorientation through control of light/sound and stress positions.

I observe all this not to detract from Glenn's points - clearly, physical abuse and murder are horrendous crimes worthy of punishment - but to remind everyone that the deaths are merely one tip of this particular iceberg.

I frequently write such things on both this site and on the various comment threads at FDL. It's very true.

But this time, let's see if we can actually see the distinction? One of the autopsy reports that Glenn cites is someone who died of heatstroke (axillary temperature of 102°, attempts to hydrate intravenously followed by transrectally...). That's a technique of "use of heat and cold" that was approved by the OLC for the CIA, and by Donald Rumsfeld for the military. Another quoted death goes the other way, the prisoner froze to death. Several autopsy reports cite injuries during arrest. Manadel al Jamadi's does, and in detail, cites injuries to the lungs and evidence of broken ribs, indicative of being stepped on during arrest. PHR's Broken Laws, Broken Lives cites a prisoner who was dragged into the street, and yelled at, which he couldn't respond properly to because his ears were still ringing from an explosion, and his wife had been injured. The technique of kneeling or putting a boot on someone's chest while taking them into custody is common, and produces injuries to the lungs. Subsequent hooding, stress positions, and sleep deprivation (for which the approved technique was shackling from the ceiling, and has killed all by itself in Afghanistan) can and did cause positional asphyxiation.

The cold need not result in freezing to death, air conditioning cold at Guantanamo resulted in Mohamed al Qahtani being shipped for hypothermia. Heat need not result in heatstroke. One of the lawyers from the Lawyer's Movement was imprisoned by the Pakistani authorities and subject to cramped quarters and severe heat, and his kidneys started to poison from rhabdomyolysis.

Those totally "soft", "clean torture" techniques can be deadly, too, and the autopsy reports bear that out over and over again. Extreme isolation typically results in suicide attempts. That can kill, too, six prisoners at Guantanamo died of suicide. And the living death The Reality Kid talks about also kills. The success rate on such extreme PTSD and depression, and isolation induced psychoses, isn't that good.

As Horace is my witness, that is the honest truth. It is amazing to me that those on the right especially, but also those on the left, do not follow the commandment that Jesus gave: love all others (including your enemies) even as yourself.

Where in the words of Jesus does one find the commandment to go forth and destroy countries that have never even harmed you because you don't care for the way they govern themselves or because they have stuff you want.

I guess the new interpretation is "all humans are worthy of compassion and love; but some are more worthy than others: so go forth and smite the others".

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Note: All this holds in spite of the fact that there was no literal breathing Jesus. The Jesus myth still teaches eternal truths like all the mystery religions did. May Horace bless us all.

"Did the CIA perhaps torture Ghul to death? We do not know. He has now completely disappeared."

The above reminds me of "los desaparecidos," -- the thousands of victims of Argentina's military dictatorship from 1976 - 1983. Is it a bit shrill to compare our government's murders to those of that dictatorial regime? Ask the family members of disappeared ones.

"Is it a bit shrill to compare our government's murders to those of that dictatorial regime?"

Dunno if it's "shrill," but it's definitely apt.

and undeniable the evidence gets at this point, the more the reaction will be to look away.

... that eventually someone in the media would make the connection that being kicked or beaten to death during interrogation amounts to torture even by the fairly lax criteria of the OLC memos ("results in death or severe pain equivalent to major organ failure"). The only way these people can fail to make this connection is if their jobs depend on not making it. Beating people to death who are in your custody and restrained is not merely illegal — it is downright barbaric.

Bernbart wants to know how many of America's Einsatzgruppen were military and CIA and how many were contractors. I think it would be more useful to know how many were Christians and how many were Jewish.

This ain't the America I was taught about as a kid

You must have been off sick the day they covered the broomstick up the ass module then. It was theory in the morning followed by the practice in the afternoon. Then hobbling home stars in the head and tears in the eyes never to see America in quite the same way ever again.

I remember the British version as if it was only yesterday. Made a man of me it did and put hairs on my chest as well.