Not at all.

What you can not seem to understand is that a government solution that you see "helping" folks may not really be what you think it is.

For example, if the government sends troops in to beat senseless people who are engaged in a peaceful demonstration in DC and many are badly hurt --- you could well be impressed that a few were helped by the government doctors that were available at that time. However, it would have been far, far better if the beatings had not happened in the first place.

Spending public dollars on a given problem may well help with that one problem, but we do not know that the public was best served in that manner. The answer is almost always no, it was not. And never forget that the hidden costs are easily dismissed even though they may be very damaging.

As an example. We spend a god damn fortune on public education, but rich folks still send their kids to private schools. Perhaps getting the government out of education makes the most sense. What, oh what, you no doubt ask, of the poor? They get to keep thousands in income by not having to pay for the "free" education in property taxes or sales taxes. But some will need help. So, help them. We can help the poor buy food without growing it --- why not the same with education?

Can you not read? I never asked for isolationism.

Non-intervention is like being friends with countries in Europe. Trade with them and talk to them. Have diplomatic relations with them. But never, ever invade or threaten them.

Get it now?

I am gobsmacked at the hypocrisy.

I'm not, I knew this would happen and said as much before it came true. I'm not the only one, in fact, IIRC Greenwald has also commented on the flip-flop nature of the True Believer's perception of Government power.

It would be real interesting to see these folks response to another country invading the USA to "help us out" someday. It is a theme of Greenwald to apply the same standards of others to different situations to see how they like it. I wish he would do one on this country being on the receiving end of some "help". I hope he picks China to "help us" if he ever goes that far in his postings.

No use, it won't matter. They've been on UT since "the beginning" and still haven't figured out the Golden Rule, which the blog author uses as an underlying premise to his posts quite often (about every other day). Besides, only "kooks" like Ron Paul frame things from the "negative" perspective you mention, i.e. have you ever thought about what it might be like to be on the receiving end of some other super power's perceived do-gooding?

... they will be enraged and moved to action by something the Empire did to them that I had no part in doing.

The souls of our proud war dead writhe and turn beneath our feet... All the blood spilled for the sake of American honor, wasted and dishonored by the cheap expediency of lesser men...

For those lesser men let this be a clear warning: There is no statute of limitation for the crime of murder and there are still Nazi's being tried for actions taken more than 60 years ago when most were but teenagers...

Justice delayed is justice denied...

RGJ/Dallas112263

When the Modern Mongols come rolling through, never having heard of your theories, and certainly not subscribing to them, you're on your own, justly, as you wish to be.

As far as I am concerned, trying to communicate with you is an exercise in futility. Not that I've tried much, but I see the other efforts here. But certainly am not going to try any more.

Have you ever heard of this thing called the second amendment?

Let me know when the Mongols conquer Texas and/or Los Angeles, ok? Let me know how the Mongols do against a citizenry that is armed to the teeth, then you can keep apologizing for glorious militarism. Will Osama Bin Laden be joining the scary mongols in their takeover of the United States?

The largest and most sophisticated army in the world has been beating multiple times now by guerrillas with rifles and grenades. So forgive me if I'm not as scared of the Mongols as you are.

The good old "isolationist" smear.

Never heard that one before!

What you're describing is a short period in our history immediately following WWII.

We weren't all sweetness and light then, either. What we did, in my opinion, was simply fail to suck.

It didn't take long for the world to realize that the Pax Americana ADDED to the beatings and the misery.

You know, it's funny. Someone conducted a poll in the late 1990s asking people in Europe if they would rather that their own country be the predominant military and economic world power, or the United States? Majorities in every country picked the United States.

The same poll in the mid 2000s showed a complete reversal of opinion.

I'm not sure that the perception of America is as monolithic, clear-cut, or time-invariant as you make it seem.

(I would agree with antineocon that the turning point came around Vietnam).

It's funny that you came away with that conclusion, since antineocon was talking about American support for the installation of the Shah, which was not at all contemporary with Vietnam.

Everyone has their own idea of when America "went bad."

I live in Europe and the sentiment you describe about Sept 11 is hardly the dominant one.

Not now, it isn't.

Many people think and say that America got what it deserves.

Heck, I say that myself. I was mean-spirited (or unfashionable) enough to even say it in the fall of 2001, too — but not for grandiose reasons of moral vindication.

We deserved it in the sense of the saying about democracy and the leaders you deserve. We let our country be run by psychopaths, because we had talked ourselves into believing that there was literally no difference between them and anyone else in Washington. We got exactly what any reasonable person would expect when you turn your country over to people like that — lies, abuse, disaster, fire, and death.

Some of us, though, still cling to that belief so strongly that we can't accept that the United States has been in crisis for the past 8 years, or that there was any way of knowing what was to come, or that we have any responsibility as a people for what happens next.

We just keep insisting that it's always been this bad, and nothing will ever change.