Er, nothing so high-fallutin, mostly we talk about "skanks in clown costumes," now that it's summertime. Before now, I remember not.

A few points of confusion on your part, dear boy:

Raja Shehadeh is male.

Raja Shehadeh did not write that quote. That was the blurb for the entire issue, of which Shehadeh was one of 24, I believe it was, contributors. I merely singled him out because when I read it, I was struck by how I had never heard the Palestinian experience expressed so simply, beautifully and succinctly, and with a noticeable lack of histrionic victimology. Since Israel/Palestinian issues is a hot button on this (and many other) boards, I thought the good people here might have some interest.

You'll also notice the poll cited in the quote. Two thirds. 'Deserved it,' might have been an overstatement on my part (though I certainly heard this sentiment expressed even in the U.S. not to mention in heart of the EU). Perhaps 'had it coming' more closely hits the mark -- at least in my personal experience. Indeed, as a British friend of mine snorted after 9/11:

"Jesus Christ, America's 'lost its innocence' more times that a $3 whore!"

My reason for bringing this up in the first place was to counter these over-arching "we are all Americans" sentiments that Amity and now you are expressing (I fail to see how your Concorde anecdote relates, though I did find it interesting). Of course no one, but the subhuman, celebrates such a colossal loss of life. But compare this to the public sentiments expressed, say, after the great tsunami of 2004. Are we to believe that Americans, for instance, really have an exceptional love for the Thai, Indonesians, Sri Lankans, etc? Well, maybe the men do, but that's quite a different kettle of fish.

The reality vis a vis attitudes about the U.S. I believe is quite a bit more subtle and conflicted. I thought that Granta issue really brought that home.

Now, onto more weighty matters. Indeed "big girl's blouse" is choice phraseology. Going pear-shaped is quite all right, as well, equivalent to the U.S. phrase, "going South," it would appear. The phrase "pear-shaped" in the U.S. seems to restrict itself to describing somatotype, mostly that of your typical rightwing nutjob troll, the likes of which are not unknown on this board.

Our involvement dates back long, long before 2001.

There is an old saying, "when in a deep hole, the first thing to do is stop digging". There is another, "first, do no harm".

Perhaps you big government, intervention loving, meddlers should meditate on that a bit. But at least don't spread propaganda that our meddling in that poor unfortunate country started in 2001.

The fact that you see a need to write an entire page worth of ABSOLUTE lies about my views on American policy represents better than anything your absolute lack of any real interest in the issues discussed here. Troll, plain and simple.

Skidoo: I was in Palestine during September 11, having just spent the last six years of my life living in New York. I think I was just as shocked as any New Yorker was, but that was tempered by the reality of what I had seen over the past year in Palestine and the US clear support and funding of it. By then, a thousand people had been murdered by Israel, many in my community. Closures and checkpoints prevented any normalcy, helicopters and jets constantly circled the sky, ready to bomb a target at any time. And things were going to get much, much worse.

Most of my friends, as you would expect, were fairly well-educated professionals, though in my day to day I knew a few working class people and my family are peasants living in a rural community. I don't know anyone who didn't, at some point, overtly cheer. There was a parade down the main drag. I had my own confused feelings about it--having spent the night of 9-11 trying to get through to a friend of mine who worked around the corner [and not realizing that another friend of mine had happened to be in the building by pure chance].

But I think my view as well as theirs was a confused jumble after so many deaths and dark days. Its perfectly encapsulated by the comment one friend made to me. "I'm glad it happened," he said, and then added "We've lost our moral compass".

That being said, my cousin moved to the US the following year and always remarked with wonderment about the diversity of her city, and how welcoming Americans--Latino, Asian, White, ectetera--were to her. Her husband, who had spent time in jail for resisting Israeli occupation, worked in a chicken shack at night and drove an ice cream truck during the day BUT WAS AMAZED at how much money he could make.

Simply put, America is a mind-fuck.

The English translation of the special snowflake is that he can not defend his position, and so must do the name-calling bit.

Devil's Dictionary(*) says that a "troll" is one that you disagree with, but you can't defeat in open argument.

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(*) Well, it would say that if the net had been in existence back then.

I'm well aware of the story. Ahmed Rashid says it was a fake, part of the scheme used by General Mehmood Ahmed, head of the Pakistani ISI to buy time and conceal ISI involvement with the Taliban and al Qaeda. BTW, General Mehmood was having breakfast with Porter Goss at the time of the attacks, detailing all that Pakistan was doing to persuade the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden. (Ahmed Rashid, Descent into Chaos, Ch.1).

I was actually asking for the whole history of the big imperialist invasion and occupation from 2001 to the present. Like heru-ur, I don't think you're able to do that, either. I don't even think you can tell us what the British have been doing in Afghanistan since 2001. You know, like commanding ISAF, or doing opium interdiction in cooperation with the U.N. or any of that.

I bet you think the U.S. demanded that all those other countries get involved. Actually, those other countries demanded that the U.S. stay and engage in nation building, something that Bush and Rumsfeld didn't want to do, which stunned the international community.

And actually, all that bullshit about the Afghan's being a simple tribal people and blah blah blah is also the usual West showing up and interpreting whatever they see as being like that since the dawn of time. "Primitive" people in "primitive " towns with "13th century" tribal lives in places like Bamiyan requested "primitive" help -- rebuilding their 31,000 person university and shit. That's what "little tribal people" do, they live in cities and attend universities. Like in Iran over the last two weeks when all those backwards people suddenly morphed into a modern society. Afghanistan was in the middle of civil wars when the U.S. "went in" with about 400 people. Actually, the Iranians supplied the intelligence for the air strikes to bring down the Taliban, with some help from the Uzbeks. But you knew all that, right? Because you're such an expert, sitting in your British pub thinking up insults and reading conspiracy theories.