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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:00 AM

The suppressed fact: Deaths by U.S. torture

The unstated premise of every torture debate -- that it was safely applied to a handful of detainees -- is false

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 07:29 PM

Thanks for that thoughtful essay, Amity

n/t

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 07:33 PM

"Oh here comes the interventionist bullshit again"

More hypocrisy from the o'fer, typical, who once claimed to be a proponent of nonintervention no less. The man with a million stories about his life but not a single ideologically consistent position on anything. Same old story, embrace the establishment while condemning it, smart guy shows off for the cool kids. You've probably already blogged about how you support nonintervention, except when you don't because you're so afraid of everthing.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 07:33 PM

bystander on thoughtfulness

Eesh, thanks for reading it! Sometimes, I just get going.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 07:37 PM

Amity

Well, if you ever have an RSS for those times when you just get going, I want to subscribe. Again, thanks.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 07:48 PM

Resistance

It couldn't have anything to do with the US being perceived as a foreign occupier from the other side of the world, destroying their country and disrespecting their culture, treating naked Iraqis like dogs, while grandstanding about civil rights and being total hypocrites about the entire thing. They also see our Israel fetish and know who is behind the various puppet Governments in the region (e.g. Egypt, Saudi Arabia) and for whose benefit.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 08:00 PM

Reality and Propaganda

Whenever torture and death are the norm for the "enemy," you can be sure propaganda is being created to erode human rights for other "unwanted" groups or individuals, say here in the U.S. You know the old adage, "give 'em and inch and they'll take a mile."

A post here linked back to Democracynow.org which reported CMU (Communication Management Units) prisons inside maximum security prisons to ensure that certain political prisoners are denied the rights that normally accrue to other prisoners. These units primarily keep the media from contacting individuals and providing them support. They are also denied contact with families and friends which other prisoners are allowed.

The more we keep our eyes solely on what's happening overseas, the more we fail to get the big picture about what is happening in the U.S. There is secrecy and there is what is observable in the clear light of day that is outside the law or is being declared as "new law" without any legislation whatsoever. I have heard folks in Orange County, CA talk about the "new law" that came with the Bush administration

and how some people need to get used to that. I think the correct term would be "lawlessness."

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 08:05 PM

Chris

"More hypocrisy from the o'fer, typical, who once claimed to be a proponent of nonintervention no less."

Never been a proponent of intervention. You're my official blog archivist now, look it up.

My comment was directed at your bullshit accusations about intervention, which you throw [case in point] just about anywhere like a modern day McCarthy. People have to read through other people's comments you know, to figure out whether you're telling the truth; you waste everyone's time, which I think is your point. Not everyone knows you're an obsessive compulsive troll on lithium.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 08:19 PM

@ kathriven: If You Can't Beat 'Em...

I appreciate your well-stated and persuasive comment, although "persuasive" may not apply when one is preaching to the choir.

I saw the Democracy Now report about the CMU system.

The development of constructing Bastilles, technological tiger cages, and micro-Siberias as if they are McDonald's franchises is indeed appalling and reprehensible.

It's a logical consequence of government institutions being vitiated by a de facto "shadow" government embedded in the juggernaut of robust, lavishly funded, and unchecked state security agencies.

The Executive Branch, including the ostensibly "independent" DOJ, promotes, supports, and facilitates this malignant and metastasizing draconian police state apparatus.

If it's at all true that Obama reflects on the adversarial relationship between JFK and the CIA, and whether this contributed to JFK's untimely death, one can only conclude that he pragmatically decided that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 08:23 PM

Amity

That truly was an outstanding essay on what America is supposed to represent and can represent and still does represent to so many people at home and abroad. Whatever else we lose -- and we've lost a lot -- the ideals that brought forth this new nation, rooted deep in the human spirit and psyche, seem to live on no matter what benighted period we may be entering, and no matter how bad our worldly representatives may be.

I've witnessed with utter amazement how deep and abiding the belief in those American ideals can be in people who have themselves been victims of some of the worst American atrocities, or whose ancestors suffered them.

So the way I look at it, we Americans have a real obligation to those ideals, and that's why we have to rail against the torture regime and all that goes with it, and fight with whatever we have to bring it to an end.

And (for LL), a "National Conversation" in this country is often not at all like a Garden Party with the Queen. It can become a real knock-down drag-out, and it can last a good long time, and almost when you least expect it, the forces of righteousness can be victorious.

We may not get the Republic back in any sensible form, but if we are to be an Empire, let it at least be decent.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 08:29 PM

Thank You Glenn

The conspiracy of lawlessness and arrogant secrecy must be dismantled with the full ardor of prosecutorial expertise.

The damage and enablement continue to threaten the foundations of our legal protections and undercut all pretense that our nation is as just and noble as we would like the world community to believe.

It is well long past time to put an end to these double dangers, and the dreadful motives which contrived them.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 08:45 PM

I think, Amity, it's that we are capable of change

while the rest of the world is either tradition bound or busy copying us.
It's called hope.

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 09:10 PM

Amity

I respect what you write and enjoy reading your thoughtful evaluations, some perhaps penned with tongue-in-cheek. Maybe this evening I am missing the sarcasm or irony.

My experience however doesn't jibe wih your writing. I lived for quite a while internationally mostly in the Middle East. In fact I even worked in Tehran in the late 1970's. I think the CIA's involvement in setting up the puppet government there was the watershed moment in the world's view of America.

The term "Ugly American," didn't occur through happenstance.

Korea and Vietnam didn't add to the allure of this country.

Your post sounded a little like something David Brooks would write. I know that I am unaware of the "endless good deeds." Iraq didn't appear to me to have any "semblance of restraint." I believe the State Department's human rights report is a "laughingstock." Possibly the last thing I would call the USA is a "bemused, uninvolved forgetful giant." Just the opposite as the CIA has imposed itself upon other countries throughout the world. And they didn't even know that Iraq didn't have any WMD because they didn't have anyone who could speak Arab.

The friends from foreign countries I've made over the years never shared with me an admiration of the USA but rather looked upon America as self-serving and Americans as egotistical, wealthy, loud, drunk and not very intelligent.

Again, the CIA has committed well-documented subterfuge in screwing up countries all over the world. People in those countries don't generally react well to such actions. I was always awed by Cheney's claim that the USA would be met as liberators in Iraq as our troops were greeted in Paris after World War II.

The last eight years, IMHO, has played havoc upon a sorely blemished international reputation. Most of that time i spent in Latin America and traveled to locations where the CIA did their work. It's not pretty! I recall a small village on Lake Atitlan in Guatemala where government troops under the control of the CIA slaughtered uneducated peasant indians in an attempt to get information on a non-existent enemy.

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