don't keep stuffing torture details in my face. I never supported the Afghan never mind the Iraqi war to begin with. I sussed it was dodgy from the beginning. Why attack a whole fucking country if you are after only one man and his followers. It didn't make either economic, logistical or any kind of military sense at all. You'd work to peel the Taliban away from al Quada. Easily done I'd have thought as no one even Bush/Cheney accused them of involvement. But no it was a political decision not a military/police one to invade Afghanistan. So the neocons must have mistaken Afghanistan for easily taken low hanging fruit. It was Afghan all along what they wanted. And the facts bear me out. They are still fighting and torturing the Afghan and haven't still mysteriously got Osama.

I as an ex mil person also feared for the moral well being of the British Army being involved in this dishonest caper. And there were a good many officers and men who also sussed this BEFORE the attack on Afghanistan and resigned and left the army. Every time I read of some poor sods torture details I curse non serving idiot civvies who supported the war to begin with.

Now start wisening up. You can follow the war in real time at this link. Stonker is a good man and a Major who left. Skynet and Alib are good as well. This is were you'll find out what's happening. After a week ten days you come back and tell me if you can find any fucking rhyme or reason about what we are doing over there:

Afghan Thread: British Army Rumour Service, (ARRSE)

http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=41531/start=10200.html

I can't let it go. I can't. I simply cannot let it go.

I have seen this hideousness in too many guises in too many places for too long and accepted by too many comfortable people as "necessary".

In the end - if we do nothing - it will devour us. As it is, increasing numbers of people in America don't trust the government to exercise either justice or mercy. It's an arguement often expressed by "gun nuts":

maybe they're right...

OT

Mr. Alexander's story must be a real pain in the ass for the torture lover's.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/aug/01/00014/

Interrogation Enhanced

The American officer who cracked the Zarqawi network did so without stooping to the terrorists’ level.

By Matthew Alexander

There’s a joke interrogators tell: “What’s the difference between a ’gator and a used car salesman?” Answer: “A ’gator has to abide by the Geneva Conventions.”

Interrogators don’t hawk Chevys; we sell hope to prisoners and find targets for shooters. My group arrived in Iraq in March 2006, at a time when our country was searching for a better way to conduct sales.

After 9/11, military interrogators focused on two techniques: fear and control. The Army trained their ’gators to confront and dominate prisoners. This led down the disastrous path to the Abu Ghraib scandal. At Guantanamo Bay, the early interrogators not only abused the detainees, they tried to belittle their religious beliefs. These approaches rarely yielded results, and our disgrace was detailed on every news broadcast and front page from New York to Islamabad.

My group was among the first to bring a new approach. Respect, rapport, hope, cunning, and deception are our tools. The old ones—fear and control—are as obsolete as the buggy whip. Unfortunately, not everyone embraces change.

found his gig as a DoD shill on NBC and MSNBC curtailed of late? Not that that was his first serious f*ckup (from Wikipedia):

According to an article written by Seymour Hersh published in 2000 The New Yorker, General McCaffrey committed war crimes during the Gulf War by having troops under his command kill retreating Iraqis after a ceasefire had been declared. Hersh's article "quotes senior officers decrying the lack of discipline and proportionality in the McCaffrey-ordered attack." One colonel told Hersh that it "made no sense for a defeated army to invite their own death. ... It came across as shooting fish in a barrel. Everyone was incredulous."[1]

Against torture of detainees if they've survived the original ambush?

here is another one. You think Glenn threads are long ones?
Note Stonker the thread authors little joke. This one was started when they were selling the surge as going to ensure victory in 90 days. Anyone remember that piece of bull? Well Elvis is still dead and The War is still running:

Battle for Baghdad 90 Days to Victory?

http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=56469/start=5400.html

Sorry, I had to leave and could not answer you....I came out of the closet, left my fundamentalist, Bible-believing church and beliefs and became more or less agnostic. I now live outside the U.S. teaching English.

After a week ten days you come back and tell me if you can find any fucking rhyme or reason about what we are doing over there

The Empire Project has been getting some bad press lately with all the accidental civilian mass murders going on over there, so we need intervention by good folk like Ondolette, who after a few years of training, is going over there to teach Afghans about stuff like how to Fuck and Save the Planet at the same time!

Speaking for the first time about his ordeal, Farid Hilali told the Guardian that during his detention in the United Arab Emirates a British secret service agent turned up at the prison where he was being abused and interrogated him, knowing that he had been tortured.

Hilali says he was then rendered to Morocco, where he was tortured for a further 22 days.

Hilali says that throughout this he was questioned extensively about alleged extremists living in the UK, and about surveillance photographs that had been taken in London. He says he believes his torturers were supplied the pictures by Britain.

Hilali's detention took place in 1999, and if the allegations prove true it would make him the first known victim of Britain's alleged complicity in torture, indicating that the practice started before the 9/11 attacks that led to George Bush declaring a "war on terror".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/25/british-torture-inquiry-hilali-uae