You point out just how far right this country is from what it was even twenty years ago. Even with Obama in office.

To call Reagan a socialist would be unthinkable. Anyone using that word today is proof of the probably unfixable stupidity of its user.

Did not see this commented on here yesterday, but Scott Horton yesterday reported that Judge Garzon has reasserted himself in the Bush torture case:

In a ruling in Madrid today, Judge Baltasar Garzón has announced that an inquiry into the Bush administration’s torture policymakers now will proceed to a formal criminal investigation. The ruling came as a jolt following the recommendation of Spanish Attorney General Cándido Conde-Pumpido against proceeding with a criminal inquiry

Link at sig.

Despite this nation's Establishment media narrative, justice seems to be moving forward in this part of Europe and will be fueled by Condi Rice's self-incrimination from yesterday and revelation of the FBI email sent from Iraq stating that Bush had approved the techniques at Abu Gharib that troubled the FBI agents there.

and i always thought my Grandma was lying when she told me he was a 'cool' dude?!

I've thought about the same thing: except Reagan was also noted for his anti-Soviet rhetoric, referring to the Berlin Wall, "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" (Now, many conservatives, and some others, want to build a wall at the Mexican border.)

It seems that his admirers have selective memory (or is it incipient Alzheimer's?). I used to think that no one could deserve the title "warmonger" more than Reagan. Oh, for the good old days!

Sullivan's find on the poll is interesting, but I think I have a clue about those "life experiences" the white Southern evangelicals rely on for their views on torture. From the current data set, Pew also broke the numbers down by political affiliation. The Republican profile of responses aligns almost exactly with the white evangelical responses. This looks to me like a simple case of politics trumping religion for these poll respondents.

See the Oxdown at my name for the raw numbers and links.

Which world leader of the 1980s WOULDN'T be considered a leftist extremist by todays standards?

Augusto Pinochet is the only one that I can think of who would feel comfortable in this Congress and this Government. The Shah of Iran doesn't count because he was deposed in 1978 and died in 1980.

Is Francisco Franco still dead?

I'm just relieved to know that this "Christian nation" of ours has so heartily embraced the teachings of its various churches. I haven't had my coffee this morning, so I can't find the part in the New Testament where Jesus instructs his apostles to lock their enemies in coffins with stinging insects, but I'm pretty sure it's in there.

It's certainly true that Reagan, like most leaders, regularly violated the principles he espoused and sought to impose on others, but still, there is an important difference between (a) affirming core principles of the civilized world but then violating them and (b) explicitly rejecting those principles. Doing (a) makes you a hypocrite; doing (b) makes you a morally depraved barbarian.--GlennGreenwald

But doesn't (a)--in this case--make you both a hypocrite and a depraved barbarian?

Augusto Pinochet is the only one that I can think of who would feel comfortable in this Congress and this Government.

He'd be a Blue Dog in the House and part of Evan Bayh's centrist coalition in the Senate.

He would fit right in, perfectly and his embezzling of Billions back then would be an Inspiration to all in Congress, Wall Street and the defense industry today!

Hell, I bet it was!

Here's Michael Kinsley in the Washington Post, joining the Broders and Keillors and Friedmans and all the rest. (link below)

I think what burns me up about this particular approach, echoed by Garrison Keillor the other day, that "we" are all responsible therefore no one can be prosecuted, is that after years of the media downplaying the notion that anything like real torture could actually be happening, they now turn that same mealy-mouthed centrism on the evidence that it did, and say "Well, we all allowed it, so it can't be prosecuted".

Speak for yourself, you pompous cowards. Some people went to jail protesting Bush's wars, even before any evidence about torture appeared.

Just because you, David Broder, Thomas Friedman, didn't take the dangers of letting Bush rage across the world seriously, that doesn't mean that the rest of us didn't. Some of us worked with all our might to stop him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/30/AR2009043003301.html

[Pinochet today]He'd be a Blue Dog in the House and part of Evan Bayh's centrist coalition in the Senate.

I'd think even the late Pinochet would have had higher standards than that.

Now Pol Pot, on the other hand...

The corporatist government-run 'mainstream' media is only there to advertise the false left-right paradigm of the War Party and convince otherwise rational people that they have no choice but to pull that lever for the lesser of two evils™. So far the divide and conquer scheme has worked almost flawlessly.

Both wings of the War Party employ the "Federal Reserve" national credit card to wage war on the world and the people--and the suckers and robo-voters keep asking for more of the same make-believe egalitarianism they can "believe in."

The "Republican" wing of the War Party is simply not on the "right" of a true ideological paradigm--they favor some of the biggest government programs and state power, namely unending "war", occupation, and empire through debt and inflation (not that the other wing of the War Party is a lick better). Reagan was co-opted by the NeoCons as his mind deteriorated but before he lost complete use of his faculties he had a few good ideas--like opposition to torture and military conscription. It's all a big fraud, all there to control you.

Perhaps you could have thrown the word socialist in the title, just to really send Rush into conniptions...the hypocrisy is, by this time, expected, but still amazing.

Jim White, thanks for the poll link. It makes an interesting point to think about, regarding the inability of people to examine their own thought processes. I wonder if those evangelicals would realize just how far from the christian ideals their view on torture is if it was pointed out to them?