if the Bush/Obama Administration is allowed not merely to keep secret documents secret, but is allowed to keep secret from the American people WHAT THE LAW ACTUALLY IS.

Clearly, the people who DID the torturing knew what the law was. And the people who RECEIVED the torture had what we call first hand experience with what the law allowed. So the only people NOT allowed to know are the American people . . . the source from which all governmental power flows and the ultimate decision maker in this representative republic.

Officials Say U.S. Wiretaps Exceeded Law Recommend

NY Times

Published: April 15, 2009

WASHINGTON — The National Security Agency intercepted private e-mail messages and phone calls of Americans in recent months on a scale that went beyond the broad legal limits established by Congress last year, government officials said in recent interviews...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/us/16nsa.html

Is Obama Watching?

I'll lay 4-1 odds that we get either nothing or the heavily redacted version of the memos. I got $5 bucks on me....

While I know Glenn is loathe to "read everything" into just one or two acts or behaviors, I have to agree this will truly be the litmus test as to what kind of man, leadership, and administration we have elected. When it comes to the importance of doing something for the sake of it being the right thing, it doesn't get any more litmussy than this.

I agree that today is an acid-test day for the Obama Administration's commitment to restoring the rule of law. But I think you may have misidentified the authors of the memos at issue, now. I thought these memos were the secret memos prepared in 2005, AFTER Goldsmith rescinded the original Yoo/Bybee work product in 2004. Bybee went on the Ninth Circuit in 2003. As irresponsible (and worse) as his actions were while at OLC, I don't believe THIS stuff can fairly be laid at his doorstep...

I thought these memos were the secret memos prepared in 2005, AFTER Goldsmith rescinded the original Yoo/Bybee work product in 2004. Bybee went on the Ninth Circuit in 2003. As irresponsible (and worse) as his actions were while at OLC, I don't believe THIS stuff can fairly be laid at his doorstep...

Three memos at issue were written by Bradbury after Bybee left. But when the DOJ requested the last extension, the ACLU agreed only on the condition that the DOJ include a heavily redacted Bybee memo as part of their response today:

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39276prs20090402.html

Only 4-1? Hell, I'd make it 50-1 and that might be too generous.

The President is only the media figurehead of the National Security State. He was brought into line before he even took the oath. If his previous actions haven't proven this, today and the months to come will make it perfectly clear to all but the most deluded.

This is why I was so sad to see both the tea parties yesterday and the reaction to them by the left. Both sides are being used as stage props by the monster Eisenhower warned us about. Yet it's just too much fun to get in high dudgeon and fight. It keeps us distracted.

I just keep hearing Ned Beatty's speech to Peter Finch in the movie "Network." Change a few of the players but the message remains the same and remains true.

"The President is only the media figurehead of the National Security State. He was brought into line before he even took the oath. If his previous actions haven't proven this, today and the months to come will make it perfectly clear to all but the most deluded.

This is why I was so sad to see both the tea parties yesterday and the reaction to them by the left. Both sides are being used as stage props by the monster Eisenhower warned us about. Yet it's just too much fun to get in high dudgeon and fight. It keeps us distracted.

I just keep hearing Ned Beatty's speech to Peter Finch in the movie "Network." Change a few of the players but the message remains the same and remains true."

EXACTLY.

Then the next one will be the real acid/litmus test.

Each new President is duty bound to make the previous President not look so bad.

Johnson made the guy he had assassinated look good.

Nixon made that rat bastard look good.

Jerry *Nelson Rockefeller" Ford made Nixon look like a liberal who at least didn't fall down.

Carter made Ford look Presidential and strong.

Reagan made Carter look like a decent guy.

Bush I made Reagan look like someone who was less fucked up on drugs than he was.

Bill "Redneck can't keep it in his pants" Clinton made Bush I look like a statesmen (the guy who puked on the Japanese Prime minister).

Bush II made Clinton look like an effective manager and liberal although he wasn't.

Obama makes Bush II not look as much like a fascist.

"Ike" didn't make Truman look good, but he was more of a General than a sleazebag politician.

We would be better off with a national lottery for the office of President. The odds of getting someone who isn't sleazebag would be better and we would eliminate the inherent corruption of elections and political ads.

I'm with Intercooler. The odds are 4-1 against or worse. There are just too many people in hidden places of power that Obama feels he just cannot piss off. The record shows he crumples like a cheap paper cup on these issues.

But even cheap paper cups can be un-crumpled now and then, but it takes very directed force to do it.

I for one see a bright side to the heavily redacted documents to be released today. There is a chance they can be used to underscore what people should be outraged about. Put them on the front page of every web site and newspaper left in print. Right now the condition is that too many people will here "Obama is releasing state secrets to the Muslim friends he bows to." That has to change and this could do it.