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Letters
Monday, March 9, 2009 12:00 AM

Charles Freeman, Roger Cohen and the changing Israel debate

The right-wing, Israel-centric stranglehold over our political debates is clearly eroding.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Monday, March 9, 2009 09:14 AM

Stranglehold on American policy

So absolute has the Israel-centric stranglehold on American policy been that the U.S. Government has made it illegal merely to broadcast Hezbollah television stations

Oh, Glenn, the "Israel-centric stranglehold" has its tentacles farther than you know. The stranglehold extends to French, German, Spanish, and Netherlands policy. Obviously they were cowed by Bush too, eh? Or was it AIPAC?

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:17 AM

typo?

Summing up the attacks on Freeman, Andrew Sullivan wrote that he finds "the hysyerical bullying of this man to be repulsive." There's no question about that. Hyesterical bullying --
Monday, March 9, 2009 09:31 AM

Hey Glenn

Why don't you tell us how Pres. Obama's policy on Israel differs from that of the "Israel-centric neocons"?

Or is he one of them too?

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:32 AM

JonathanInTelAviv

The stranglehold extends to French, German, Spanish, and Netherlands policy. Obviously they were cowed by Bush too, eh? Or was it AIPAC?

It's common for European countries to restrict and even criminalize speech -- see all of the right-wing complaints when they punish anti-Muslim speech (contrasted with the right-wing silence when they punish anti-Israel and/or anti-Semitic speech).

By contrast, the U.S. has this thing called the "Constitution" and a "First Amendment," which is supposed to ban the Government from criminalizing speech based on its content. That ban is usually honored, but not when it comes to broadcasting content from Israel's enemies. Off to prison you go if you do that.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:35 AM

JonathanInTelAviv

Why don't you tell us how Pres. Obama's policy on Israel differs from that of the "Israel-centric neocons"?

It remains to be seen whether and how much he does. Obviously, Israel-centric neocons aren't happy with Freeman's appointment, and then -- just six weeks into his presidency -- there are these signs:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/25/israel/index.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/02/27-4

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:37 AM

European restrictions on free speech

It's common for European countries to restrict and even criminalize speech

Do you have examples of that? Sure, there's restrictions in Germany on holocaust denial. Anything else?

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:40 AM

Ya Salam!

Is Israel STILL piloting American foreign policy...

..quickly somebody catch the controls!

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:41 AM

JonathanInTelAviv

Do you have examples of that? Sure, there's restrictions in Germany on holocaust denial. Anything else?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/13/hate_speech_laws/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6573005.stm

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/11/fruits-of-hate-speech-laws.html

http://www.sarahludfordmep.org.uk/news/001164/antisemitism_calls_for_vigorous_refutation_as_well_as_prosecution.html

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:41 AM

Freeman

If the neo-assholes don't like him, then I like him.

Jonathan, keep on digging. I know Glenn loves stomping on you & I enjoy watching it.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:42 AM

Just a comment while i'm reading...

I'm still in teh midst of reading this great piece, but I wanted to make some comments before I forget. I read the Freeman column when it was published with a great deal of pleasant surprise. It was very well written and thoughtful piece. The fact that such things need to be written--that the American people are so convinced that Iran is a Nazi fatherland, when there are so many means at their disposal to see the truth--remains depressing.

I would like to point out two things I would say were arguable points in Freeman's piece.

Firstly, I think there is a danger in going too far in using the Jews of Iran as some bellwether for the openness of the society. Israel has a substantial proportion of non-Jewish 'citizens' which they also boast of, but the reality is that there rights are heavily curtailed. That being said, Freeman addressed that issue quite nicely in the first column he wrote, in any case. The point is that if Iranian leadership is wise enough to promote the community, then they couldn't possibly be the wide-eyed finger-on-the-button genocidists they are made out to be.

Secondly, on a minor note, one could say that Iran's war with Iraq was an expansionist war, though its debateable. But the reality that that war devastated Iran should be one more reason to believe that Iran does not believe protracted conflict to be in its best interest.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:43 AM

But but but

Freeman Saudi Arabia something something.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:45 AM

jonathan hasbaradude

Don't forget the military censor in the country you claim to be a citizen of, Israel. Or didn't you know that?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2006/jul/19/israelimilitarycensorguilty

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:47 AM

Jonathan REALLY is in Tel Aviv

In spirit.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:47 AM

@Glenn

I,m NOT being flippant...is a new debate actually evovling in my life time?

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:51 AM

Just as I thought

Other than restrictions on pro-Nazi and Holocaust denial speech, the only restrictions you cited in your links (and that I found in a quick Google) are those that try to keep the Moslem street (which now extends deep into Europe) from exploding.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:53 AM

Hah! an in!

Before this comment roll gets rolling (I'm getting new glasses today so I should now be able to keep up when they get rolling fast) I would like to take the brief mention of human rights in China as an in, and an opportunity to wish everybody the best on today, the 50th anniversary of the 1959 uprising in Tibet, the crushing of which forced the exile of the current Dalai Lama.

Someone really interested in human rights in China (no, Matthew Yglesias, your group, HRIC, fails the same test you propose for Charles Freeman) would have posted something, don't you think?

Tibet, and the parts of Qinghai, Gansu, and Sichuan provinces that used to be part of sovereign Tibet, are locked down by what even the most sympathetic would have to call phalanxes of storm troopers. Makeshift posts built of sandbags have been put in at all major intersections. Troops march 4 across through Lhasa. Two minor bombs have gone off, so it will probably be a long day, and reporters are, as usual, banned. So if anybody dies, nobody will know, most likely, unless they aren't ethnic Tibetan.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:53 AM

JonathanInTelAviv

What is your KKK ranking? Grand Wizard? Imperial Dragon Felcher?

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:56 AM

Simply Amazing

Glenn posted this article at 8:50

JonathanInTelAviv started trolling at 9:14

Glenn, you may have set a New World Record for chumming the dregs in the shortest period of time with this article.

Congratulations.

I expect WinSmith will be along shortly, as will Zoltan and Calamine but JonathanInTelAviv is the Chumpion of Trolls today.

Monday, March 9, 2009 09:57 AM

Sheesh, I thought I'd been keeping up...

... but, you've a bunch of references in there I haven't seen. Thanks for sussing out all of these links, Glenn.

And, I absolutely missed this story,

So absolute has the Israel-centric stranglehold on American policy been that the U.S. Government has made it illegal to broadcast Hezbollah television stations and has even devoted its resources to criminally prosecuting and imprisoning satellite providers merely for including Hezbollah's Al Manar channel in their cable package.

Managed like mushrooms, we are.

All the more reason to see Freeman appointed, assuming he can clear the IG.

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