Remember the Bear Patrol episode of the Simpsons? If anybody is having trouble explaining this concept to someone, just bring up this episode and they'll understand.

It does not negate your main point Glenn, but Iraq was not technically a "Muslum" country before the invasion. It's government was secular.

I think you were in too much of a hurry on this one...

It does not negate your main point Glenn, but Iraq was not technically a "Muslum" country before the invasion. It's government was secular.

I don't think a nation is defined exclusively or even primarily by the properties of its government. Roughly 98% of Iraqis are Muslim. The term "Muslim nation" is therefore perfectly accurate for Iraq.

Hope you are being sarcastic - otherwise it is sad to see you climbing up to the intellectual caliber and rigour of the Bush-Cheney gang.

It's government was secular.

-- explorer

Do you use that same logic when US politicians say, "We are a Christian Nation", when, in fact, our citizenry includes people of diverse religions and also agnostics and atheists?

Hope you are being sarcastic - otherwise it is sad to see you climbing up to the intellectual caliber and rigour of the Bush-Cheney gang.

This phrase was in what I wrote:

Using the prevailing media-logic applied to Bush's counter-terrorism policies such as torture and Guantanamo (i.e., if a country is attacked by Terrorists, its Government then does X, and there are no Terrorist attacks for some period of time thereafter, then that is "proof" that "X stops Terrorism")

What did you think that meant when you read it (speaking of "the intellectual caliber and rigour of the Bush-Cheney gang")?

You tell them that the only hope that we have of protecting liberty is to dismantle the Empire. The evil empire is the enemy, and it is us. (h/t Pogo)

If the USA was no taking sides in the middle east, propping up dictatorships, using CIA hit teams, demonizing Iran (and others), and other such follies then we would not be the subject of blow-back.

Spain to Morocco in North Africa. The journey by ferry takes about an hour. The Mediterranean countries of Europe are much closer to Muslim nations than the U.S.A. is but it's America that appears to be living in fear and dread of "foreigners".

After all, that's what Spain did, and there's not been another Terrorist attack for five years. Therefore, those policies have kept the Spanish people safe.

I'm not a brilliant constitutional expert, nor do I have a column in Salon, but the logic displayed above is embarrassing.

There hasn't been a terrorist attack in the United States since September 11. Therefore, George Bush's policies kept the American people safe. Correct?

Bummer. A day without GG is like a day without sunshine. It's the one blog I read every day.

Happy travels!

You please don't tell the ACLU -

"that the only hope that we have of protecting liberty is to dismantle the Empire. The evil empire is the enemy, and it is us. (h/t Pogo)"

You tell them we work together for a better - (not 'Empire' you idiot)

For a BETTER GOVERNMENT!

There hasn't been a terrorist attack in the United States since September 11. Therefore, George Bush's policies kept the American people safe. Correct?

This was a pretty short post. In fact, I only 3 sentences, one of which began with this:

Using the prevailing media-logic applied to Bush's counter-terrorism policies such as torture and Guantanamo (i.e., if a country is attacked by Terrorists, its Government then does X, and there are no Terrorist attacks for some period of time thereafter, then that is "proof" that "X stops Terrorism")

Did you read that sentence before writing your comment? If so, what did you think it meant?

>...the logic displayed above is embarrassing.

Actually, it is good, *if* you think about what Glenn is saying.

He's not claiming his logic is correct. Instead, he's saying that *if* the Bush admin *was* correct, then we should be able to use the kernel of their logic to seed similar activities. Or rather, as you state:

"There hasn't been a terrorist attack in the United States since September 11. Therefore, George Bush's policies kept the American people safe."

... that *if* that is true, a constant drumbeat from the previous administration and their cohorts, then so is Glenn's hypothesis.

of a society and a government that works!

I don't understand the complaints about Glenn's logic. The point of this post is that, contrary to what BushCo spent half a decade telling us, withdrawing troops from Iraq and trying suspected terrorists in civilian courts doesn't automatically lead to mushroom clouds. There just aren't that many terrorist attacks in Western nations, regardless of policies, so it's not necessary to dismantle civil rights and continue killing Iraqis to prevent them.

Would you please consider writing about Obama's considerable and unprecedented expansion of Bush' faith-based initiative.

It is very disturbing to me.

Here's what the ACLU has to say about it so far:

http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/38667prs20090205.html

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama announced today that he is taking the unprecedented and troubling step of forming a federal advisory committee to be made up mostly of religious leaders. Also of great concern, President Obama will increase federal funds going to religious organizations without first changing the Bush-era rules allowing federally-funded religious organizations to apply religious hiring tests to employees.

“President Obama launched his faith-based initiative today by heading into uncharted and dangerous waters,” said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. “What we are seeing today is significant - a president giving his favored clergy a governmental stamp of approval. There is no historical precedent for presidential meddling in religion – or religious leaders meddling in federal policy – through a formal government advisory committee made up mostly of the president’s chosen religious leaders.”

Today’s announcement included the appointment of 25 members of a government advisory committee that will be dominated by religious leaders. The mission of the government committee will be to advise the president and the White House faith-based office on how to distribute federal dollars, and also advise on a range of other issues such as AIDS and women’s reproductive health care. Although former President George W. Bush gave prominence to his faith-based initiative and informally consulted with individual religious leaders, even he never formed a government advisory committee made up primarily of clergy.

Although the president restated today his earlier campaign commitment to end the discriminatory hiring practices of government-funded religious groups that President Bush allowed, he deferred changing the rules. As a result, potentially hundreds of billions of dollars of new federal spending in the economic stimulus package now before the Senate could be distributed under the existing rules that allow discrimination in hiring in federally-funded programs.

“President Obama has put the cart before the horse,” said Christopher Anders, ACLU Senior Legislative Counsel. “He is expanding the Bush administration’s faith-based initiative without putting the most important safeguards in place. The president has created a more powerful office with a greater ability to shovel federal taxpayer dollars to religious groups, but civil rights protections are being deferred for later study and decisions. With the president likely to soon have additional hundreds of billions of economic stimulus dollars at his disposal, he should have abolished the discriminatory rules of his predecessor before greasing the way for more federal funds going to religious groups.”

To read the Obama Administration’s Executive Order, go to:

http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/38666leg20090205.html