Justice and compensation for Maher Arar.

"[the CAT] seeks to define ‘torture’ in a relatively limited fashion, corresponding to the common understanding of torture as an extreme practice which is universally condemned.” It also noted that “‘torture’ is thus to be distinguished from lesser forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, which are to be deplored and prevented, but are not so universally and categorically condemned as to warrant the severe legal consequences that the Convention provides in the case of torture.”

It should also be distinguished from name-calling, ridicule, SNL skits, and jokes in extremely poor taste (which I might note aren't disjoint sets).

That said, this differentiation does little in terms of actually defining the dividing line between CIDT and torture, but simply points out what the Convention itself says: that the two are not identical.

Saying that we "understand" it as prohibiting only the "extreme practice[s]" which are "universally condemned" makes no sense definitionally, particularly when the Convention itself refers to CIDT that is distinct and separate from torture (see Article 16).

The relevant line should remain the actual definitions in the CAT, Part I, Article 1.

Cheers,

Can a private citizen bring suit under the treaty provisions?

Anyone can bring a suit about anything. But you will, in the instance you describe, be dismissed for lack of standing.

What justification is there to not have an investigation and what is preventing it?

______________________________________________

Where there's a will, there's a way, 'tis said.

There is no legal justification, as Glenn has taken pains to explicate. There may be arcane, casuistic legal arguments against an obligation to investigate-- I'm sure a Yoo could cobble up something-- but there's no legal or ethical justification.

There are only pragmatic rationales, i.e. the bluffs, scams and dodges righteously preached and practiced by our vaunted professional political class.

A condensed and abbreviated recitatif: Moving Forward, Not Rocking the Boat, Reconciliation, All Hands on Deck, No Time for Sergeants, Being Practical, Concentrating on What Works instead of Being Ideological, Not Spooking the Desperate and Childlike Masses, Taking Care of Bidness...

The idea is that We the People can not expect Obama to Do the Right Thing of his own accord, but that the Right Thing will happen only to the extent that the Righteous force the issue and Make Him Do It.

And all the while, Miles Davis-fashion, he plays to the hazy middle, and perpetually keeps his back to the left side of the audience.

"Article 1

1. For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."

Article 1, Clause 1 of the CAT doesn't really provide more concrete examples which allow us to differentiate between torture and other cruel acts. For example, skits aside, the use of a Slim Shady recording by the CIA to terrify interrogation suspects can be construed by some as inflicting severe mental suffering on detainees.

YMMV.

You cretins must sip at the same mug. LOL.

1.)Give me the EXACT Lemay quote--in context--Genius. Many, many targets of Allied bombing had no "Military Value", for Gawdsakes. It was Total War. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...! Focus because it gets real complex and subtle here: The object of Total War was to kill them, destroy their stuff and bring them to their barbarous knees--UNCONDITIONALLY. Duhhhhhhhh....!

2.)YES, Japanese "Peace Initiatives" were floated even prior to mid-1945, Doofus. I invite you to read them in Richard Frank's book, "Downfall", as I keep urging. They can be framed like this: "Give us most of what we already have and stay off our islands and significant portions of Japanese occupied Asia and we'll be peaceful and stop killing the Allies whom we launched total war upon." NOT unlike the Chinese-North Korean "peace initiatives" after their offensive of 1950. Naturally, you fearsome tykes would have readily accepted either or both. Thank God for FDR, Truman & Churchill.

3.)Keep in mind, also, Genius Types: September 1944-Peleliu and

its slaughter; Iwo Jima & Okinawa, 1945, and their far greater American deaths. All had taught us what the likely carnage on Honshu & Kyushu would be for our young men. Hundreds of thousands--Minimum.

Like Fussell said: Thank God for the Atom Bomb.

Like Bill Styron said: Ecstacy.

You safe little twerps haven't a clue.

WITH MALICE TOWARD SOME.

Thanks for the answer, poddy102. It's all a lot to process...still working on it.

The original wording of the Reservations by the United States in reference to the Convention Against Torture is presented at the UN website, here [at sig]:

http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&id=129&chapter=4&lang=en

Finland, Netherlands, Sweden objected to the US reservations [also on that page].

We are getting a little short on the trolls, so we don't want you to have a coronary.

You must be stressed about tomorrow. Sorry about that. "Darkies" in the WHITE House. It's bad I know.

You said, "You safe little twerps haven't a clue."

Are you in danger? Should we call Heimat Security or something?

You safe little twerps haven't a clue.

WITH MALICE TOWARD SOME.

-- NeoConCabal

That's easy for you to say. You didn't have Holly yelling at you today. So consider yourself safe and spared.

That's not a question, btw. Its a polite directive.

1.)Give me the EXACT Lemay quote--in context--Genius.

The fact that sadSAC Le May is even being brought up should tell you something.

2.)YES, Japanese "Peace Initiatives" were floated even prior to mid-1945, Doofus. I invite you to read them in Richard Frank's book, "Downfall", as I keep urging.

When I have time and inclination to revisit an already well-documented era, perhaps. Or perhaps I'll do something more productive with my time, like give you and shooter242 "CIA swimming lessons".

3.)Keep in mind...All had taught us what the likely carnage on Honshu & Kyushu would be for our young men. Hundreds of thousands--Minimum.

Small wonder MacArthur was so darned eager, eh?

Small wonder you're so eager for the same, eh?

You safe little twerps haven't a clue.

That would be far more effective if you weren't looking down your pants when you say stuff like that.