Our founding fathers were for human rights. And they were also against high taxes.

Sorta frustrating how you can't find a politician today who can simultaneously embrace both those ideals, ain't it?

Not really. Never heard of Ron Paul? That doesn't surprise me since Simple Steve appears to be simple.

"No. There is never a "rational reason" for prejudice or stereotyping."

Yes, there is. Rationalization is not the same as justification. A stereotype and discrimination can be rational, but not justifiable, at the same time. And there are many police forces who would argue for both. The Department of Homeland Security argues for the validity of both. So does the IDF.

"You can blame some[one] for something they did. Blaming someone just because a member of their ethnic group did something is just rationalizing bigotry.

Come on, so I really have to explain this in 2009?"

I agree with you. But that is not what I was supporting.

"Maybe the Jewish population in certain societies did things and said things that were unfair, and criminal."

The whole population? Every last man, woman, and child?"

No. I never said that, either.

"We can see the overwhelming representation of Jews in our media/financial industry/foreign policy and defense establishment today."

No, "we" can't. You can.

Then you are blind.

"There is a reason why you feel uncomfortable: because you're spewing hatred of your fellow human beings.

You have way bigger problems that "the Jews," Steele the First. You have a problem with your humanity."

This is why I feel uncomofrtable - because people like you are so emotional and so fucking programmed you can't even think straight. No wonder Chomsky warned Finkelstein to keep his mouth shut.

Intelligent people can read my words and know what I am saying. And intelligent people can read my words and know that I am not justifying or arguing for any inhumane treatment of any person or people whatsoever. That is your hysteria, programmed into you by the Zionist controlled media propaganda machine.

Damn you are ignorant.

You changed the subject by saying that General Curtis B. Lemay was no soft individual and was guilty himself of war crimes. (as he famously saw himself)

So? That was the reason I picked him to show you how stupid your claim is. Even LeMay said that the bombings had no military value.

Suck on that a while little one. LeMay says you are a fool; and he says it from the grave where you will soon be. Then you will fully appreciate the errors of your evil. Enjoy your little game while you can.

As I said, "selective street smarts" is not becoming.

Clinton raped Juanita Brodderick. And Bush got Gonzales to say that waterboarding was legal.

So -- you have Clinton denying something that is a crime, and Bush confessing to something that the AG says isn't a crime.

Like I said, I'll leave it to real ethics professors to decide which is worse.

And by the way -- if a Bill Clinton denial is all it takes to convince you, well...let's just say your "credibility" isn't looking that great these days, either.

Yes, he supports torturing people, but apparently draws the line at sentences.

Oh, the grammar, the grammar! - nitchy

The mind boggles.

But what if Clinton had "intel" from his "brother" in "spec ops" that Juanita was hiding a grenade in her vagina? Would it still be rape?

And she was a foreigner...

And by the way -- if a Bill Clinton denial is all it takes to convince you, well...let's just say your "credibility" isn't looking that great these days, either.

-- steveindallas

Nope. I didn't say I was convinced of anything except that Bush and Cheney tortured. They said they did. As for Clinton, Juanita Broderick is no different than Stevethesimple. Just because Stevethesimple says something doesn't mean that I, or 30% of the population believe it to be true. So let me repeat myself, since you have just repeated yourself: you're full of shit.

A stereotype and discrimination can be rational, but not justifiable, at the same time

Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. And your invocation of the Department of Homeland Security and the Israel Defense Force as your arbiters of rational stereotyping speaks volumes about your mindset.

I don't give a fuck how "blind" or "programmed" you think I am. You're a sick bastard. I wear your scorn like a badge.

You get the last word. You don't exist to me, asshole.

It's either Deadeye Dick or one of his fanboys.

Assuming I agree with Greenwald's entire article, which I don't entirely, I think there is a position that should be considered. The word "torture" for most brings scenes of the Inqusition, and there is evidence that information gained is not always accurate.

And thus, the bullshit begins. One, the Inquisition (as well as the witch hunts) used water torture to get people to "confess" to things that not only weren't true, not only things that did not happen, but to things that were physically impossible, like flying on broomsticks and turning people into toads.

One of the people Bush had tortured "confessed" that Iraq and Al-Qaeda were allied against the US and that Iraq was involved in the 9-11 attacks. That "confession" is in part responsible for the deaths of over 4000 Americans and a million Iraqis.

Assume that 100 terrorists were subjected to waterboarding and one out of the hundred made possible an intervention that caught an otherwise viable plan to nuke New York City, thus preventing the deaths of several million people. Would you still want to prosecute the one who waterboarded that terrorist?

I don't assume anything is possible when it only happens on moronic TV shows. Why not base government policy on I Dream of Jeannie while you're at it? [click my name below]

http://daltonator.net/durandal/blog/?p=102

Besides Harold & Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay has more basis in reality and is more entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONMoVMMnR_U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G9ta7AHsIU

We are in a new world of possibilities and need new world solutions, as well as new thinking about permissible interrogation procedures. It is a slippery slope, but many lives may well depend on our solution.

There's nothing new about torture. It was stupid, perverted and evil thousands of years ago and still is today -just like those who condone it. You know, YOU!

They might as well bring back animal and human sacrifice, too.

The niceties of civiliazed behavior are sorely tested in any war. We must balance the true possibilities against our moral conscience.

Hitler couldn't have said it any better:

Struggle is the father of all things. It is not by the principles of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world, but solely by means of the most brutal struggle.

--Adolf Hitler

Looks like you're not the only one who thinks morality can be ignored during a struggle.