@libertyaintfree

"Condem the act,fix the loop hole, promote awareness and let's move on.I believe that is Obama's intent."

I'm afraid you're right, except there's no loophole to fix. I'm afraid the best we can hope for from Obama is the appointment of a commission of inquiry, which I hope will have the authority to recommend prosecution. But the "loophole" here is the political elite's belief that the law simply doesn't apply to them if they think the law is hindering them.

And yes, the knowledge of where they were going and where they were headed would save lives, by getting teams info on the location, so they could seize other weapons.

Again, hopefully they would volunteer the answers, or trade them for a few hundred bucks.

-- steveindallas

or somebody, somewhere, could ask the obvious question: what if there weren't any of "our" troops in Afghanistan to be killed by exploding vaginas?

But I guess I'm just naive, huh?

And on the point made by other commenters that no prosecutions opens a huge, gaping hole in the idea of rule of law in America, the Bush regime opened an amazing Pandora's Box here that has to be closed. And the only way to close it is to put the likes of Yoo, Ashcroft, Cheney and Bush on trial for the crimes they have openly admitted to committing on U.S. soil. As you said so eloquently, Glenn, there is no defense, no mitigating factor to be called upon to absolve them of their part in all this. The country is being sucked into a huge black hole due to their malfeasance and, contrary to what some might argue, the Bush presidency was at least as criminal if not more so than that of Nixon.

Let the reckoning begin. President-elect Obama, the choice is yours: walk the talk about 'real change' or shut the fuck up and let a real leader take your place. No man or woman - black, white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever the color of their skin - will create meaningful, lasting change in this country unless they lead by showing the character of their conscience and creed and "hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal (including before the law of the United States of America)."

For the record, the "Greatest Generation" had no problem with Dresden, Nagasaki, or Hiroshima. They would've done anything and everything to beat their opponents. And if you don't think that ad hoc executions went on in the field, you're truly naive.

War isn't pretty, people.

-- steveindallas

My own father served in the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force. He was born in the '20s so I believe he qualifies where Bush and Cheney (and you) do not ... he, and many of his fellow servicemen I have spoken with were appalled by the fire-bombing of Tokyo and Dresden, and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Many of them suffered chronic psychological problems for the rest of their lives as a consequence of the thinsg they did and witnessed. (One of the things often ignored in all this is that soldiers are often as much victims of their political masters as are the people they kill). One of the things my father kept from his experiences was a British (iirc) poster showing German soldiers bayonetting babies. This demonisation was deliberately calculated to remove the inhibitions most western soldiers were raised with, against torture, summary executions, etc.

Not much has changed when it comes to the manipulation of public opinion, and the "management of the message", except that the methods get a little more subtle, perhaps.

Having already referred to your own "narrow circle of military friends" you should be more careful about presuming to speak for an entire generation, or even the servicemen of that generation. You have no excuse for your presumption, since by your own words you demonstrate you are already aware of how narrowly focussed we can be when we only associate with people like ourselves.

Sure, torture and summary executions happened in World War 2. So did rape, mass murder, genocide, and a whole host of other horrors, for which the Allies hanged people.

The distinction you are missing is that you're trying to legitimise SOME of these things while the countries of which we are citizens have almost universally agreed (geneva conventions have 194 signatories according to wikipedia and the ICRC) that they are crimes and they remain crimes no matter who does them, no matter who orders them done, no matter what circumstances pertain when they are done.

That is not a private opinion: that is the law.

Which is where this whole thread started, with Glenn making this very "simple" point.

I'd have thought you of all people would have appreciated it.

Non-violence can't tackle terror: Dalai

Times of India

18 Jan 2009, 0451 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: The Dalai Lama, a lifelong champion of non-violence on Saturday candidly stated that terrorism cannot be tackled by applying the principle of ahimsa because the minds of terrorists are closed.

"It is difficult to deal with terrorism through non-violence," the Tibetan spiritual leader said delivering the Madhavrao Scindia Memorial Lecture here.

He also termed terrorism as the worst kind of violence which is not carried by a few mad people but by those who are very brilliant and educated.

"They (terrorists) are very brilliant and educated...but a strong ill feeling is bred in them. Their minds are closed," the Dalai Lama said.

He said that the only way to tackle terrorism is through prevention. The head of the Tibetan government-in-exile left the audience stunned when he said "I love President George W Bush." He went on to add how he and the US President instantly struck a chord in their first meeting unlike politicians who take a while to develop close ties.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Non-violence_cant_tackle_terror_Dalai_/articleshow/3995810.cms

@Paul Daniel Ash

Precisely, which is why I analogize it to rape. The scary thing is how quickly the moral taboo against justifying torture fell away... and how tenuous a grasp so many among us have on their humanity.

This is what is so enormously depressing about the United States today. Steve (aka "Ticking Vagina Man") is just a small example of the multitude who supported this and other exceedingly ugly behaviors that have emanated from this administration after 9/11.

I also wonder at what is left unspoken. If the "put a bunch of 20 year olds in that situation etc" storyline is actually valid in any way whatsoever, it is almost certain that SteveInDallas is admitting to being a rapist as well as a torturer.

Good thing they aren't real people he done it to, like us republican voters, huh?