Which is worse: Someone with some water in their sinuses? Or, an increased likelihood that a few American troops are ambushed a few days later?

It's a question people should think long and hard about. -- steveindallas

Here's testimony from a WW2 Japanese soldier's war crimes trial. From http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886834:

After I was tied to the bench, Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.

[...]

When I was not able to endure his punishment which I received, I told a lie to Yuki ... . I could not really show anything to Yuki, because I was really lying just to stop the torture.

-- Filipino lawyer Ramon Navarro, who was subjected to waterboarding

If *my* life depended on getting accurate intelligence, torture would be the one thing I absolutely would NOT do.

Could we, maybe, create a parallel UT comments section, and leave this one for all the "You're a bunch of anti-Semites!!1!" people and all the "Israel controls the Universe!1!!" people to argue it out?

Srsly. The 9/11 Truthers can stay, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/18/pelosi-open-prosecution-bush-administration-officials/

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is receptive to the idea of prosecuting some Bush administration officials, while letting others who are accused of misdeeds leave office without prosecution, she told Chris Wallace in an interview on "FOX News Sunday."

"I think you look at each item and see what is a violation of the law and do we even have a right to ignore it," the California Democrat said. "And other things that are maybe time that is spent better looking to the future rather than to the past."

Rep. John Conyers, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, announced Friday he wants to set up a commission to look into whether the Bush administration broke the law by taking the nation to war against Iraq and instituting aggressive anti-terror initiatives. The Michigan Democrat called for an "independent criminal probe into whether any laws were broken in connection with these activities."

President-elect Barack Obama has not closed off the possibility of prosecutions, but hinted he does not favor them.

"I don't believe that anybody is above the law," he told ABC News a week ago. "On the other hand, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards."

Pelosi, during the interview in her ceremonial office, said there is merit in both arguments.

"I don't think that Mr. Obama and Mr. Conyers are that far apart," she said. "There are different subjects and you treat them differently."

She hinted that the law might compel Democrats to press forth on some prosecutions, even if they are politically unpopular, adding:

"That's not up to us to say,
`that doesn't matter anymore.' "
-- Nancy Pelosi

-- FOXNews, Sunday, January 18, 2009

Good catch, bystander. I also noticed that Steve has a sinus fetish, does not believe in global warming, does not think homosexuality is congenital, likes Camille Paglia, and in 40-odd letters posted (he's new to the scene here) has more than a few bizarre sexual references; but the ticking tampon one is the best. It's probably anatomically possible, but I can't imagine it being very practical, especially considering Afghan women wear long skirts.

@ Little Brother - I read Slaughterhouse Five recently, in the past couple of weeks, and I was thinking it should be required reading for every Republican.

Jebbie has offered.

Poor old Ban Ki-moon. He tried to make his voice heard just before the ceasefire, saying Israel's troops had acted "outrageously" and should be "punished" for the third school killing. Some hope. At a Beirut press conference, he admitted he had failed to get a call through to Israel's Foreign Minister to complain.

It was pathetic. When I asked Mr Ban if he would consider a UN war crimes tribunal in Gaza, he said this would not be for him to "determine". But only a few journalists bothered to listen to him and his officials were quickly folding up the UN flag on the table. About time too. Bring back the League of Nations. All is forgiven.

http://tinyurl.com/84dp4z - at sig

But am utterly unable to figure out any reason why the grenade being in the woman's vagina is any kind of germane factor in deciding whether torture is moral.

The freudian implications of that choice of anecdote are rather more illuminating.

Well, I'd rather not say just who, because it might be a spoiler of sorts.

I recommend this brilliantly caustic observation by Dennis Perrin: http://tinyurl.com/8zhpt7

Please check it out.

Even Jack Bauer never had to defuse a ticking vagina.

They tick? So, that's why people look at me funny. . . .Pedinska and bystander, have you two had this issue?

Mine only ticks occasionally, but I've heard that goes with aging...

Yes, I hate, loath and despise al Qaeda & its clones, Hamas and Hezbollah. Whereas you and yours reserve hatred for Boooosh, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, et al. The Dark Age Death Cultists are misunderstood religionists who would mind their own darn business if we minded ours. Right? Tell me, Laurie of NY: How far from Ground Zero do you live, Sweetums. A-Mazing.

The Moral Vacuum crowd never ceases to amaze this old T-Rex.

Now, please, swig the lithium. That's a Girl.

Don't blame Steve, all that posting as Johnatanintelaviv has gotten him totally turned around. Imagine having to lie about being shelled in Sderot while trying to keep track of which family member is serving in Afghanistan in Special Ops [Of course. No chickenhawk's relative is ever simply a mechanic]. I for one pity the man.

It's a dehumanization story. It's meant to show that the enemy we are up against is so impossibly inhuman and ruthless that we must abandon "nice" practices, because war is hell. That's all. Like the stories about cutting heads off. That's a brutal form of ritual murder, but not torture. But it is used over and over again to justify the torture. The argument is always that someone who does things like that isn't human so they won't respond to normal cues -- therefore (logic very weak at this point) only torture will get the information from them. The Japanese told stories that Americans ate their prisoners of war. It's functionally identical, even if some of the stories hold grains of truth, sometimes. It's always coupled with a minimization of the inhuman treatment being prescribed: "a little water in the sinuses" instead of dry drowning that sometimes requires defibrillation.