I didn't say Bush/Cheney were members of the WW2 generation. I said they carried the demographic in the elections.

For the record, the "Greatest Generation" had no problem with Dresden, Nagasaki, or Hiroshima. They would've done anything and everything to beat their opponents. And if you don't think that ad hoc executions went on in the field, you're truly naive.

War isn't pretty, people.

According to reports, 33 captives at Guantanamo are currently being force-fed because they are on a hunger strike.

When the force feeding started several years ago, it was rather widely denounced as torture, as it was being conducted in a manner to cause as much pain and discomfort to the captives as possible.

When force feeding was used on suffragettes back in the Olden Days, there was no doubt it was torture and was meant to be torturous.

But now-a-days one hardly hears about force-feeding as torture.

Has it become so routine?

I simply stated that Glen probably doesn't know why The Green Zone was named that. Then I related a story from the field.

Why do you think he doesn't know?

Is it a secret?

War isn't pretty, people.

I had no idea.

I forgot about the anthrax sent to the Dems and the NYT...

The Supremes certainly lost any credibility as a check and balance in 2000. Too bad progressives and others who worked for Gore were naively trying to "play by the rules" in the Jeb("little brother") almost Eff'd-up fix. The Bush Bully squad descending on the BOE offices in Florida probably brought back bad memories to the Gore team of 3rd-grade playground fights... the same way of dealing was the MO of Bush/Cheney for the last 8 years. Most of the adults reverted to their childish and unevolved 3rd-grade selves: They caved and ran! Bluster and Blow has worked well for Bush and Cheney their whole lives.

But, with the threat of prosecutions at any future time (remember the elderly Pinochet?), from any country who signed the treaty, should require heavy alcohol use to quell the quaking of these cowards. Really, they should stay outta sight. 'Cuz people are pissed~REALLY pissed!

We've actually been scratching our heads for 8 years wondering if torture is illegal or not,

This is nonsensical. Who are you speaking for, Gandhi?

How does your story end?

And why did you bring it up?

A genuine question--about jurisdiction.

I guess I'm a little confused about who has jurisdiction over this matter of prosecuting members of the federal government for policy decisions. -- adultgrrl

Jeebus. Policy decisions? Prosecuting policy decisions?

Yes, you are either very confused or you are just another propagandist. Which is it?

In regards to "is it a secret?": You either know, or you don't. You and Glen apparently do not.

In regards to you having no idea: Having never been there, you probably have little to no idea.

Oh. Here's a link about other grenade smugglers. Decided to google it out of curiosity:

http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13681

Had no idea, did you?

Actually I misread your post - you weren't saying they were "of" the "Greatest Generation", just they carried the "Greatest Generation".

I'll give you that perhaps - though specifically I was thinking about those that actually served, which may give a significantly different statistic. Nonetheless I'll hand it to you.

However as Chris pointed out, they weren't exactly running on a "Waterboarding" platform, nor was it implied. In fact every effort was done to keep it "hush, hush". I'd like to see them detail their exact acts here (or rather acts they authorized) today on TV and see how much the "Greatest Generation" likes them after that?

In fact one would say, perhaps in direct relation to these (and others yes) revelations, that their popularity has plummeted. In fact Obama's election says quite clearly that they and the rest of the nation are anti-torture.

As a final note, the thing that really gave the Nazis away was that they tried to hide everything. That is, you could tell even they knew what they were doing was wrong was because they hid it. Had they put it out in the open one could have wondered if they didn't understand the extent of their crimes, that they honestly believed what they were doing was right. The same in fact goes for Bush et al. If waterboarding wasn't so bad, there would have been no reason to hide it (and no, I don't buy the "it'd let the bad guys prepare if they knew it" B.S. - prepare for waterboarding? Yeah right...).

I will also note you didn't answer the Jesus question I put out there...

Shinseki wasn't demoted, he was simply allowed to retire at his current rank. He was my division CG at Fort Hood when I was in, and a hell of a guy. I get what you're trying to say, and he was beyond a shadow of a doubt fucked over for doing the right thing, but stating that he was demoted is factually incorrect.

I didn't say Bush/Cheney were members of the WW2 generation. I said they carried the demographic in the elections.

I don't know if they carried that demographic, but even if so, it's preposterous and insulting to say that an agreement with the use of torture would be the reason. I can speak for my father. He was from "The Greatest Generation". He despised Bush and Cheney to the bone.

For the record, the "Greatest Generation" had no problem with...

You don't speak for "The Greatest Generation". Please stop pretending to.

War isn't pretty, people.

We're just simple folk. We all thought war was a video game played in teen boys' bedrooms.

-- steveindallas

Didn't you and your friends swear an oath to uphold a document that you appear to hold in contempt? Isn't that absurd?

How the story ends? It hasn't ended. The soldiers are still deployed, or waiting to be re-deployed. This was just a day in their life.

Why did I tell the story?

You put someone in their 20's in a situation where they face gunfire on a pretty frequent basis. They encounter someone who has information that might help them increase their chances of survival in the coming weeks -- namely, who they got the grenades from, and where they were taking it.

Which is worse: Someone with some water in their sinuses? Or, an increased likelihood that a few American troops are ambushed a few days later?

It's a question people should think long and hard about.