On the Pakistan border? Not many. Like I said, this wasn't an abstract exercise. It was a real-world scenario.

What would you have done?

You should enlist and help Obama win his glorious Afghanistan campaign. I'm sure you'd do well there, and you'd also serve as a moral compass for our troops.

Like PDA said, you seem to be under the impression that everyone that posts here is a card carrying Democrat. I get it now, you're posting here because the blog post mentioned Ronald Reagan and you got all butthurt about it, that a leftist liberal on a leftist liberal website like salon would mention Reagan.

Yes, and---worse---mention Reagan without slurping.

Yes, Colin Powell, in a fit of integrity, tried to choke the decider with a pretzel. Unfortunately the operation failed. It was all hushed up of course. We'll have to wait for the book.

Unbelievable validation of gov't schools. Oh, and did you just advocate the overthrow by military coup of the Boooosh-Cheney Admin..? A-Mazin' what's allowed in these lefty swamps.

Steveindallas: LIKE your stuff amonst these hate filled, Hamas hugging, Israel hating, al Qaeda approving, Hezbollah luvin' lunatics.

WAT IF THER VAGINAS WER TICING?!?!?!?

As you know, most here think you a liar.

However, let us pretend this myth was true for a moment.

So? So what? You have no right to torture these enemy soldiers simply because you want to do so. After all, you and your murdering friends went half way around the world to kill people.

The rules of engagement in this situation prevent you from torturing these people. Don't like that --- go be a big city cop instead.

Sheeesh. This joint is a High Chair Pounders Convention. But, I'm a Giver and shall be here to guide you sick, twisted freaks into the light.

When do the lectures begin?

"Read Book X, it will prove everything I said is true!!"

This edition of "I Assert, You Find the Evidence" is brought to you by steveindallas.

More importantly, will there be snacks?

Steveindallas: LIKE your stuff amonst these hate filled, Hamas hugging, Israel hating, al Qaeda approving, Hezbollah luvin' lunatics.

I see. You're upset over the "I" word.

Perhaps you and Steve can head to littlegreenfootballs and plot your glorious overthrow of the US Government, the catalyst of which will be the prosecution of BushCo? Afterward you two can dream about going to into battle with Joe the Plumber to save your Former Leaders, with Warrior Princess Sarah Palin eading you by the dick, ready to shot some Islamofascist Liberals.

Even Jack Bauer never had to defuse a ticking vagina.

Not a myth. It's an actual incident.

I wasn't involved in that one, but know the people who were. Finding a grenade in a vagina is something that people tend to remember, and they bring it up in later conversation. Sort of hard not to.

I'm trying to think of a scenario that doesn't involve something pretty wrong that would allow you to determine that a woman had a cell phone or grenade in her vagina. Seems like things already had gone off the rails even before the idea of torturing these women came up.

So, do you support torturing suspected "serial killers" in the USA? Because that too might save lives. How about Timothy McVeigh - he could have had more friends waiting in the wings to blow things up? If we torture drug users we might find the identities of the drug suppliers and thus save childrens' lives, so I assume that is ok too? I'd be interested to know where your line is drawn here.

The thing you guys don't get is sometimes being the "good guys" means you have to have it harder. It means sometimes bad things have to happen that wouldn't otherwise because you take the high road. If you take the low road, you're no longer the "good guy" and we may as well give up on this experiment called "United States of America".

Yes, it sucks because sometimes American lives have to be lost, but I am willing to risk mine and that of even my son who I love more than anything in this world, to do "the right thing". Frankly it would be far more expedient to turn the Middle East into glass, and it would undoubtedly save American lives, but being the good guys means sometimes you have to do it the hard way. Doing it the other way, you win the battle, but lose the war.

I may be wrong, but I imagine you must believe in Jesus. So my question is - what do you think Jesus would say about torture? Would he think it ok because it was the reality of the times we live in and saved American lives? If he had a grave to turn over in, I would imagine he'd be doing it right now.

They have to decide how badly they want information. Hopefully, they can buy it for a few hundred dollars.

Steve, you've threatened to leave before, and you hung around, so I'm assuming you're still here. It's all right. These letters have that effect on people. :-)

Anyway, I'm really not sure where you're going with your little tale, but in the context of what we've been talking about all afternoon, I'm assuming that the next step, if they can't buy the information, is to begin beating the shit out of the women. Or worse.

If pain brought honesty, this might have the makings of a challenging moral quandary, but unfortunately all pain brings is the overwhelming desire for the pain to stop. And, despite how "simple" human nature is in the abstract, in reality, people do all kinds of things when in terrible psychological or physical pain.

So, if these kids choose your option "B," in addition to disfiguring their own souls, they have the difficult task of deciding whether to believe the tortured women or not. The women could have said whatever they thought the kids wanted to hear, which may or may not save lives.

But I don't put much stock in the utilitarian argument, Steve. Torture is wrong for the same reason that rape is wrong. Full stop. If you can find a reason to torture someone, you can sure as shit find a reason to rape someone. And I have no qualms in calling that reasoning inhuman.

Have a good evening, man.