However, if you have information to the contrary: specifically, that systematic torture was U.S. policy as directed by the White House, I'd be very interested to see it.

He would, but it's TOP SECRET. He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you.

I KNOW that he never WOULD want to change into a person like steve, who would think somebody could 'deem it necessary' -

Simple as that.

Here is a 2000 State Department report to the U.N. on the status of the Convention in American law -- see paragraphs 3-6 and 58-60:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/100296.pdf

Here is the implementing legislation -- not sure of what the status of this version is:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.R.6017.EH:

Sounds more like Steve Dallas.

Because waterboarding is more effective than those things. So is giving them money.

Geez. You've been in Brazil too long.

Alles sollte so einfach wie möglich gemacht sein, aber nicht einfacher. -- Ablert Eistein

Because waterboarding is more effective than those things.

My gracious, what a wondrous and magical (and capacious) place your ass must be: for you can pull out of it assertions to win any argument, at a moment's notice!

It's simple!

Because waterboarding is more effective than those things.

Osama Bin Laden agrees with you. He loves when we waterboard terrorists because it makes recruiting easier.

It never fails that every time there is a torture debate someone comes in with the "torture works" myth as the axiom on which everything else they say is predicated.

Matthew Alexander would disagree with you. Do you even know who Matthew Alexander is, Steve? Here is a hint: He has never appeared on "24".

Sorry, Ladies: There Ain't Gonna Be NO Stinkin' Prosecutions..

Possibly not. The jury has yet to be empaneled there.

of the tough folks who kept your knickers safe and made sure you weren't interrupted from your deep thoughts here.

Thank heavens it'll just be prosecutions of the souless, weak cretins who have done such damage to our country.

NOT going to happen under your guy, The Messiah, nor anyone else.

Um, I doubt most of us here are born-again Christians. Our "guy" is a gifted politico from Illinois, not that young rabbi from Nazareth some 2,000+ years ago.

See, Bammo has seen the real National Security Agency-CIA-ETC facts and isn't going to stand up in front of the nation and shoot himself in the nutz. Not for the likes you possessor's of vast testicular leftish concavities.

Thank heavens for that! I'd hate to think we'd elected yet another certifiable lunatic. Eight years of that messianic nihilist was more than enough.

Get a Grip.

And I'd advise you to un-grip that bit of your anatomy under the beltline. Its frakking embarrassing.

The rest of what you wrote...its too revolting to merit a response. You're as sick a piece of work as Latvia Beria.

torture works!

Try finding a copy of Giles MacDonogh’s "After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation."

Waterboarding was used in WW2, on both sides. And it's not something that raw recruits innately know how to do; it must be taught.

didn't the nuke go off anyway?

Einstein hat immer Recht aber leider darf ich ihn nicht mehr zitieren (I was ordered to think myself) and i guess that's why I really dislike steve...

I never heard of this Eistein person, but during interminable exchanges deep in the 9/11 Sphere of Deviance with Sensible Folk hurling derisive criticisms from the edge of the Sphere of Legitimate Controversy, I've had occasion to note that Ockham's Razor is a double-sided blade.

And in any case, never intended to be deployed as a '50s gang hoodlum might deploy a switchblade harum-scarum during a rumble.

I don't know, I don't watch it.

If I want high fantasy I'll read Tolkien.

"...Obviously. it appears as it if it's not the only thing you don't think about."

When you resort to insult, it's a good sign that you don't have much of a case left.

Someone asked me what I thought about Lakotah, and I answered that I really don't think about it much at all. How many people on this message board do?

and I for once seem to agree with the crazy chris - How did that happen?

it's a secret message

I'm not a Clinton hater. I'm not a fan, either. I just thought he was okay.

I'm a fan of gridlock.

Joining the ranks with the rest of reactionaries who comment on hot air about grabbing Sarah Palin and their guns, going all helter skelter and marching on Washington, foot soldiers in the upcoming overthrow of the United States. They want to take our country back! Both of them.

like the "love" we felt for the people who 'deemed it necessary" after 911!

it's a good sign that you don't have much of a case left.

Compared to what? Your false assertion that torture works and is good for the security of the citizens of the United States?

You're like a lot of reactionaries that come on and say "torture works!" and then merely repeat the assertion over and over and claim QED.

You still haven't given an answer to the scenario I put forth, i.e. my assertion that you would be perfectly happy if the Federal Government took you family in the middle of the night and interrogated them with what you call not-torture techniques, because the Government sincerely believes your family has information it wants and is merely using not-torture to protect the country.

I did say, "Obama may agree with us, now we have to "make 'him' do it", as your own FDR once said to a petitioner."

Thanks for the data on Holder's comments about torture, I missed those. It's true that those remarks are indicative of his thinking, and we can use them to push him in that direction. And unlike his predecessor, I don't see Obama as sociopathic and malign. My opinions on whether or not he will seek prosecutions are based in part on his statements about looking forward not back, or words to that effect. In his heart, Obama almost certainly must be repulsed by what Bush's men have done in "our" name. What he must balance now is the political cost of prosecuting, when those prosecuted may very well be high ranking members of his own party; which is a very high cost indeed.

If it's true that there is momentum in that direction, and I hope you are right, if so, the question becomes how do we motivate him to do the right thing?