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Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:00 AM

Binding U.S. law requires prosecutions for those who authorize torture

The new Attorney General just said that Bush officials authorized torture. A treaty signed in 1988 by Ronald Reagan compels the U.S. to prosecute those who authorize torture. What's the way out of that?

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 01:24 PM

Pedinska

It's written in english, after all, not Swahili.

It's not even in Czechlish. They have no excuse. ;-)

Sunday, January 18, 2009 01:28 PM

Obama, the Amerikan political elite

state the political problem in amoral (pragmatic) terms (always), and then take the amoral position. This renders their opinions

unassailable

iconic

not easily combined with other viewpoints

Clearly, the Obama administration is going to pursue this. To do so would be to keep his political agenda on the front pages for the next year at least.

Rights and wrongs, legalities and illegalities, truth or consequences-- these are all strands in a Gordian Knot that has kept Amerika's political process in a stranglehold for decades!

Morality, after all, is an ambiguous and idiosyncratic issue that lends itself to endless animosities and disputes. It has no place in politics! That's why politicians must be perpetually mendacious, hypocritical, amoral actors whose responsibilities are necessarily limited to facilitating the political process and safeguarding the prosperity of Amerika's political and financial institutions. An executive encumbered by moral considerations, integrity, and probity will only be a spoon that keeps stirring up the shit; a cool, dispassionate, businesslike, cost-benefit analyst is what is needed to develop workable solutions acceptable to the Lowest Common Denominator of We the People.

Obama is a paragon of virtuous amorality! Oh, it sounds a bit oxymoronic, but anyone with a realistic understanding of how modern politics work must reject the touch-feely moral principles to which Glenn and blowhards like Little Brother foolishly subscribe.

____________________________________

Mark Twain briefly served as a secretary to Nevada's Senator Nye; here is a bit of dialogue between the incredulous senator and Twain over one such exchange, which nicely illustrates the tension between politics and morality:

"... Now, here is another specimen. I gave you a petition from certain gentlemen of Nevada, praying that I would get a bill through Congress incorporating the Methodist Episcopal Church of the State of Nevada. I told you to say, in reply, that the creation of such a law came more properly within the province of the state legislature; and to endeavor to show them that, in the present feebleness of the religious element in that new commonwealth, the expediency of incorporating the church was questionable. What did you write?

"'WASHINGTON, Nov. 24.

"'Rev. John Halifax and others.

"'GENTLEMEN: You will have to go to the state legislature about that speculation of yours—Congress don't know anything about religion. But don't you hurry to go there, either; because this thing you propose to do out in that new country isn't expedient—in fact, it is ridiculous. Your religious people there are too feeble, in intellect, in morality, in piety in everything, pretty much. You had better drop this—you can't make it work. You can't issue stock on an incorporation like that—or if you could, it would only keep you in trouble all the time. The other denominations would abuse it, and "bear" it, and "sell it short," and break it down. They would do with it just as they would with one of your silver-mines out there—they would try to make all the world believe it was "wildcat." You ought not to do anything that is calculated to bring a sacred thing into disrepute. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves that is what I think about it. You close your petition with the words: "And we will ever pray." I think you had better you need to do it.

"'Very truly, etc.,

"'MARK TWAIN,

"'For James W. N——-, U. S. Senator.'

Sunday, January 18, 2009 01:29 PM

@EL Cid

I live near New Orleans

The Mississippi mouth

Of the old south

This area still has problems anchored in the old

But folks still try to work shit out

Sunday, January 18, 2009 01:30 PM

A genuine question--about jurisdiction.

I guess I'm a little confused about who has jurisdiction over this matter of prosecuting members of the federal government for policy decisions. Do you think you could write about that? Why are you focusing on Holder solely? Are there other possible venues for managing their accountability to the law, and lack thereof? This is a tactical question but it is also about the different kinds of discretionary power within different judicial venues. Thanks.

Sunday, January 18, 2009 01:30 PM

The Law

Glenn, as usual, makes a perfectly reasoned case supported by legal precedent et al.

Yet, if nothing else, it is pretty clear that America is undergoing a period of political lawlessness. Harriet Meir and friends ignore subpoenas, FISA was ignored, Governors are framed up and sent to jail; there are many many other examples.

It it is true that those who tortured and more importantly, those who authorized it, should be prosecuted.

It comes down to political will. And has been stated repeatedly -- there seems to have been a lot of complicity on the part of very important Democrats. Obama is not going to prosecute anyone. The can is large and full of worms -- from both sides.

And as I have said before, Obama has threatened to bomb Pakistan - twice. One stated premise was to "kill Bin Laden" which is not a Casus Belli under international law. Bombing countries with whom you are not at war, is itself a war crime. If Obama bombs Pakistan, or even continues to bomb Pakistan (dozens of attacks in 2008) then he, himself, will be guilty of war crimes. Will he really want to be the first President in history to prosecute a predecessor, when he himself could face prosecution for crimes that he has already stated that he might commit? No, of course not.

Sunday, January 18, 2009 01:31 PM

El Cid

If I bash Southerners, it's the ones what deserve it. As a native and still Southerner, it has caused me no end of grief in my lifetime that the most pernicious of destructive political forces we have faced in the lifetime of our country have been my conservative white neighbors, and not so much them, as the manipulative elites posing to lead conservative white Southerners.

There are a lot of southerners who seem to be easily led, and there are plenty of "leaders" wanting to lead them down a path to war or other error. However, I find that many of the most bigoted people I see and talk to end up being transplants from colder climates.

Regardless, it just seemed that there was a whole lot of bigoted bashing today. Letting out a little steam?

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