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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:00 AM

Tom Friedman offers a perfect definition of "terrorism"

The New York Times war cheerleader urges that Hamas be "educated" by "inflicting heavy pain on the Gaza population".

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 08:47 AM

Danjoaquin

Thanks for asking. My family is all in the West Bank, but I did have many friends who were originally from Gaza. They're stuck in the West Bank while their families are enduring this without them. I'm not sure which is worse...to be in Gaza or to be in Ramallah watching your place of birth being destroyed and wondering if your family is ok...

Wednesday, January 14, 2009 08:48 AM

@Goatstein

Your picture link wasn't working for me. Could be just where I'm surfing from. Anybody else?

I'm ex-field artillery. What it generally looks like when airburst isn't much at first. Small white poof where it went off, but the giveaway is that you can see what look like fragments streaming smoke behind them (they're felt wedges impregnated with the stuff). A few seconds later, after the wedges have dispersed, it blossoms into immense, solid white clouds of smoke, as if a thunderhead cloud were sitting on the ground.

Wednesday, January 14, 2009 08:48 AM

Rationalizing Murder

I guess the "heavy pain on the Gaza population" that Friedman cheers for includes the children who were left cowering next to their mothers' dead bodies to starve to death (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/08/gaza-israel-palestinian-territories) while Israeli soldiers prevented the Red Cross from rescuing them for 4 days. I wonder how Mr. Friedman would feel if his own family lived in Gaza!

It is amazing how members of the Israel Lobby, like Friedman, will go to any length to justify Israeli actions no matter how atrocious! They rationalize the intentional killing of civilians as a logical and acceptable tactic. We are all diminished, as human beings, when we put up with this kind of rationalization of murder as part of the main stream discourse in our society.

Wednesday, January 14, 2009 08:49 AM

How bout this

"I don't know what you mean by a "Jewish extremist." Peretz -- like many, many people -- is both Jewish and an extremist, but he's an extremist in exactly the way that all sorts of non-Jews are. What's the difference between a "Jewish extremist" and just a regular old "extremist"?"

There is something to be said for broadly grouping all extremists together, since they exhibit many of the same fundamental traits regardless of religion/race/etc. That being said, there is also something to be said for acknowledging that the particular religious/ideological orientation of a given extremist bears relevance towards how one should understand and fight them. Take muslim extremists. Is your implicit argument that we should forget that they are muslims, and go from there to a generic anti-extremist strategy? I would argue that that would not be very effective. Their motivations need to be understood to be combated effectively.

"Is George Bush a Christian extremist or an extremist who is also Christian? Are the Taliban Islamic extremists or extremists who are also Muslim?"

Again, I would argue the more specific categorization is more useful. Their actions are informed by the particular variety of extremism they ascribe to. To say an extremist is an extremist is to ignore that the different varieties have wildly different specific beliefs.

"How does the widespread opposition to the Iraq war and other neocon policies among American Jews -- to say nothing of the fact that they are about the most reliable Democratic voting bloc outside of African-Americans -- fit into your little theory?"

This speaks to my argument. The widespread opposition to the Iraq war was the stance of the average American Jew, but not of most prominent Jewish opinion-makers, or pretty much any of those in government, nor of some of the most powerful Jewish advocacy groups such as AIPAC. AGAIN, the reason I think this is important is because, if these folks are indeed motivated by their Jewish beliefs, those in the Jewish community who disagree with those beliefs would be the most effective in marginalizing them, if properly motivated and mobilized. Furthermore, the more reasonable Jewish politicians in the Democratic party (people like Feingold, Levin, perhaps even Schumer, who despite his presence at the rally is no Joe Lieberman) may take a cue, which would serve as an enabling force for many others. By analogy, it ineffective and counterproductive for Westerners to criticize Islamic extremism through their cultural lens - what is most effective is for other muslims to do so through an Islamic lens.

"I seriously doubt you could find a single Jew, let alone many, who would tell you there is no such thing as a Jew who is an extremist."

Really? How many Jews are writing articles and books and forming groups to combat Jewish extremism? By the same token, how many Jews are writing articles and books and forming groups to combat an opportunistically loose definition of Islamic extremism (see David Horowitz, Daniel Pipes, Charles Krauthammer, and so on)? I did not say that most Jews would say there are no Jewish extremists. I do say that most Jews would say that they are a tiny minority (like the Kahane cult) with little effect on Jewish political behavior.

"Discuss whatever you want. I'm not trying to stop you. I just think that your singular focus on "Jewish extremism" is, at best, completely misleading and, more likely, suggestive of something other than a good faith attempt to analyze these problems."

My "singular focus" is that a very important reason that the limits of criticism towards Israel are beginning to stretch is because increasing numbers of Jews are becoming troubled by Israel's actions. Though you imply anti-Semitism on my part, it would be a weird form, as I think that Jews need to be more prominent in changing the atmosphere that permits Israel to do whatever it wants, and that Jewish beliefs can be an important component of this. Another question: people have been saying exactly what you've been saying for over 40 years; why has the atmosphere not changed one bit? Would that not suggest we need a new approach? My suggestion is that Jews and Jewish groups in America and Israel would need to be featured very prominently in any attempt to alter America's orientation towards Israel, or the attempt is likely to fail. If most Jews in Israel and those involved in policy and opinion making here hold extreme views informing by their Jewishness, those in the Jewish community would be most effective in altering those views. In the end, isn't an important path towards a reorientation towards the middle east a religously motivated reorientation beginning with the large numbers of reasonable and tolerant Jews in America and Israel? I don't see how that's either anti-semitic or inane.

I agree that there are many reasons that our middle east policy is so bizarre and unfair, most of them unrelated to Jews. While I am open to the idea that the Jewish motivations of people like Peretz or Krauthammer are irrelevant, either philosophically or strategically or both, I think that folks should consider that carefully, given the fact that we're on some 40 years and counting, and little has been accomplished. I really, genuinely believe that prominent, a loud American Jewish voice (community wide) is a critical first step in changing our blind support of Israel to the sort of support a true friend would give.

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