In spite of having collectively anticipated things of this sort many months ago, it is still profoundly depressing and disappointing when they actually come to pass. Surprisingly so.

I wasn't saying that Obama intended to extend the rationale to future cases. I was asking you: what possible grounds is there for confining the rationale to past cases? If we decide now that it's worth it to use torture-obtained evidence to convict accused terrorists, what rationale is there for reaching a different conclusion in the future when the circumstances are identical?

Did you read the 1935 case, where the Supreme Court overturned murder convictions of African-American defendants because the confessions were obtained through beatings? Was justice served in that case? Is justice served whenever defendants are acquitted because of constitutional violations by the Government that taint the evidence? I think the answer is clearly "yes" and I don't change my views based on the defendant in question. These principles apply to all crimes, including (one might say "especially") the worst ones.

Am I that ignorant of my comic book lore? I'll have to check wiki.

"Seriously, the whole idea that Khalid Sheikh Muhammad is like some super-villain or something, and that he has to be kept in Super-Max with Lex Luthor and the Green Arrow forever, would be laughable if it weren't so toxic to our system of laws."

-- Paul Daniel Ash

I assume you mean "The Green Goblin"? Green Arrow is a hero.

Quit ruining the funny.

I'm more afraid of people like you, who are apparently willing to provide a "work-around" for this whole unfortunate enhanced interrogation business, than I am of KSM.

That's fine. I suppose then you're also more afraid of Barack Obama than KSM. I guess that's company I can stand to keep. (And, as Mona said yesterday, I am ANYthing but an Obamabot.)

By the way, are you aware that every day in this country, criminal convictions go up on appeal, and appellate review courts find that while Constitutional violations occured, the remaining evidence of guilt was compelling enough that the appeals courts decide to leave the convictions undisturbed?

Were you aware that THAT is the law of the land, that Consitutional defects are not an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card?

Do you fear those appellate justices as much as the guy facing three thousand counts of premeditated homicide?

About that NYT's article Sanger wrote suggesting Bush had denied aid to Israel for an attack on an Iranian nuclear site.

NYT’s Sanger Sure Gets It Wrong - US Did Sell Israel Bombs for Iran Attack
By: Siun
Sunday January 11, 2009 7:30 am

http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/11/nyts-sanger-sure-gets-it-wrong-us-did-sell-israel-bombs-for-iran-attack/

The source:

Haaretz
Last update - 00:00 14/09/2008
U.S. to sell IAF smart bombs for heavily fortified targets
By Aluf Benn and Amos Harel

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1020702.html

Despite reservations in Washington regarding a possible Israeli strike on Iran, the American administration will supply Israel with sophisticated weapons for heavily fortified targets, the U.S. administration announced.

The U.S. Department of Defense announced it would sell the Israel Air Force 1,000 new smart bombs, rumored to significantly enhance the IAF's military capabilities. The deal was approved amid public and secret messages from Washington, with the Americans expressing their reservations about a possible Israeli strike against the Islamic Republic's suspected nuclear sites...

if O thinks that the public is going to be so stupid to not know about our own CIAs' involvement with Israels' interst-using neoconian info and techniques--he needs to think again...

The public knows of Cheney and neocons stovepiping info from other branches of govt..so he better rethink any bullshit "Michael Ledeen" touted, Frank Gaffney touted talking points..

O has the public trust on his side..and if he tries to pander to groups of the GOP..he'll end up looking bigotted, extreme to his own base..

The white-guy chest-thumping, Straussian, man-o-war-is an ideology-not reality...To not realize this risks alienating the rest of the world and his own party.(and sex/minorities in US too).

Leave this chest-thumping BS to the guys too old to realize how stupid/ridiculous they look doing it.. (neocons)..

Stop playing their game..and go find yor own new game O.

Whatever the hell he is, KSM is way worse!

And so is Jestaplero!

Because he hacked me off this morning.

"re: Green Arrow

Quit ruining the funny."

-- Scientician

Now, wait a minute. Where's the evidence that Green Arrow is a villain? Was it beaten out of him?

That makes one wonder, doesn't it? For all of Glenn Greenwald's attacks on the un-inaugurated president-elect, we don't see many attacks on the corporate press, do we?

-- limiting factor

Surely, you jest.

People who largely support/overlook right-wing policies when approved or pushed by a Democrat are no different than most of those on the other side who vote Republican -- they support their team.

How else can so many Democrats get so worked up about the evil Republicans and then LOVE Democrats who are only millimeters away ideologically? It certainly explains why the horse-race media coverage of politics that everyone bemoans is popular in the ratings.

Give it up. We're not discussing minor technicalities. We're discussing torture. And I'll note that you've already got KSM convicted as if some semblance of a trial had occurred. Like I've said, bullshit like yours has created literally hundreds of boogeymen at least as bloodthirsty as KSM is presumed to be.

You're a prosecutor? So KSM is a bad dude, and who cares about the legal niceties? Piss off.

but I distinctly recall you saying in your campaign that you would go the diplomatic route...that the was the "change" from GW...with our enemies...

Remember that?

Cause with the elction only having taken place a few months ago--I bet lots of others ebsides myself recall this as well..

We also voted on that 'change" mandate of diplomacy..no matter what your AIPAC donors may have to say about it..

Gonna let AIPAC make a liar out of you so soon??

Hello?

You there?

Very few have the cajones to admit that we're as lost to fascism as we are.