"Omooex is Palestinian/Colombian"

I prefer Colombistinian actually.

Thanks for listening. (If you did.)

I did (or, read, as the case may be).

About FISA (which I think would apply to pretty much any other issue), you say:

There are 3 possibilities. He was 1) making a purely political calculation, which is possible since Obama seems to me as astute a politician as Bill Clinton; 2) he learned somethings in the course of his briefings that made him change his mind; or 3) a combination of the two. I don't know and I will wait to see how things shake out but, yes, this does trouble me. For now, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

If #1, I wouldn't describe that as the action of an astute politician. I'd say that is the action of a liar. Why must we succumb to this as part of the natural/political order of things? I don't think we should, no matter what's accepted as "political." One of our problems is that so many of us shrug and say, "that's a politician for you."

If #2, then, again, he should just say so.

If #3, we wouldn't expect him to say so, given #1.

But here's Timothy3 on the matter: It is utter baloney/nonsense/horseshit (that last being my preferred) to accept political "triangulation" from these people.

Look, if they know about triangulation, and we know about triangulation, then why all this triangulation? To whom are they speaking?

It's as if I say to you, "Hey, I'm going to lie to you,"

You say, even before I get the words out of my mouth, "I know you're going to lie to me."

I know that you know this. You know it, too.

So why this dance macabre (or at least, deception)?

I disagree with you on Steels comments..

Because of this Palestinian slaughter....Israel and it's actions with its' neighbors have been put under a microscope for the world to see..

I see nothing wrong with anyone saying that the policies(Israel) are racists-becasue they are..

so am I gonna bowdown to the "antisemite charge" that some want to use as subterfuge to stop the argumet?

Nope.

The other common propaganda tactics are to" demonize the other-to make him/her less human and therefore easier to declare war on..

Another tactic is to throw the argument-by ignoring questions you don't want to answer--while putting your own up..(Win)

The other tactic besides calling "antisemite" is loon, LIBRUL....or other namecalling immaturity.

I guess what I'm getting at..is that people around the world jsut didn't really realize how racist the Israeli govt. and it's policies were towards Palestianians...

Steele posted one I'd seen about the Rabbi condemning Arabs..

I'd read another today about how at the Dead Sea (where Palestinians used to own all of the waterfront land)-Israelis had banned Palestinians from going there (the only beach,source of water Palestinaians had.)

I've seen some arts in Haaretz about the propaganda of Israelis from a young age-to condemn Arabs (schoolbooks...).

So the "anti-semite"gets thrown up all the time---that's to throw sand in the umps eyes..

so stay on track..and don't let your argument get hijacked..by someone like this...becasue the throwing of the "antisemite card-is just a form of bigotry too...and it's usually projection..

It's just that trolls come out..or those screaming it...think if they are louder...OR ALLCAP...they can intimidate whomever they debate.

So these are all things that we are just now uncovering...and it's becasue we are NOT backing down anymore to intimidation-over getting to the truth..

The truth is that Israel is being exposed for truth now...and cannot dictate to the media and msm to slant stories favorably-in light of reality (UN, RED CROSS, Humanitarian aid workers can attest to).

They don't like it either.

The truth hurts..but sometimes someone-or many of us-have to keep at it/stay focused/keep hammering..

Hurling insults "antiSemite" at me or "You're hurting my feelings" is not gonna work with me...

Israel needs to be held accountable for their actions.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Steele tends to make outlandish generalizations, i.e., Jews own the media, which he plops down into the middle of what are often decent arguments. This has nothing to do with Israel's policies being racist. Of course those policies are racist. The fact is that I have never seen a pro-Palestinian argument that required me to make a judgement about what Jews are like, or what they own, or what Israelis are like or whether they are racist. And I find that I am proud that in that case there is a huge contrast between my arguments and those who support Israel's policies in the West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem and within the state of Israel.

My argument is with the Israeli system of government, not with Israelis. Just as arguments made here about the majority of Americans being idiots are not usually taken seriously, so goes the arguments that Steele inserts in his analysis.

re: media.

umm..Murdoch, Jack Welch, Sumner Redstone...to name a few.

Fox,WSJ (YooHOOO Judy Miller), GE,.....

need dots..to military complex/Iraq/propaganda?

Hi B..good to see you!

Missed ya..

In that case, please find another cause to champion. I doubt Palestinians need your help.

You miss the point. It's not that the evidence might be "tainted." It's that being forced to give evidence will reveal intelligence methods and possible personnel.

Horseshit. Police do it every day of the year. Are you saying that witnesses in our courts are being killed for testifying in the great majority of cases?

If the untainted evidence was gathered covertly, there are ways to get that evidence into play without divulging the method of collection.

More to the point, if these guys are so innocent, why does no one want to take them back?

Gee, do you think that maybe it's because Rumsfeld painted the whole lot of them as "the worst of the Worst" when the great majority of who we had locked up in that hole hadn't done a damned thing except be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Maybe we should send them to Rumsfeld's house and he can worry about what to do with them. Naw, what we should do is lock Rumsfeld up and free his victims.