If you go halfsies with me, I'll get 'em a room at the Holiday Inn, where they can proceed to fuck each other, with a big wide grin.

Personally, I think it's an abstract argument. There is a lot of pre-torture evidence on KSM.

Oh, I agree. I never claimed it to be anything but abstract. From what I understand about KSM, I think he'd probably get convicted in regular court even with the tainted evidence suppressed.

But I'm not 100% sure, and I don't know about other cases where really bad guys might walk.

And, for the record, I'm not just freaking out about this now that Obama is about to get sworn in - I've been agitated about this since TortureGate: Day 1.

But anyway, I respect your opinion and appreciate the thoughful and substantive debate. Cheers.

NoOrbtiBoy sure has some awful propaganda, eh?

How about we worry a bit more about Pakistan imploding, or North Korea getting belligerant again, eh?

Or how about worrying about the future of the United States? And I'm not referring to "teh terrorists". I could see "the terrorists" getting to Iowa in December and deciding that we can keep it.

which Iran is this "equal" society you are talking about? I think your view is naive because it ignores many facts. And it is true that the Iranians have murdered a large number of gays. Please research this if you are in doubt.

Also, your opening salvo of insults was unnecessary and actually not very impressive. I would rather you do it the hard way and just focus on the issues. There is no point in this kind of writing - it just spreads bad feelings around. why do you want to do this?

As for criticism, isn't it just possible for us all to wait until he's in office and actually starts DOING things

1. Appointing people to jobs is "doing things"

2. Speaking of intentions and plans is material worthy of thought and critique.

3. Often leaks and such are trial balloons and failing to respond may give someone the idea that they can get away with whatever. Once the bad idea is formally announced, it is MUCH more difficult to derail it. If it is just a leak, they can just deny the story and it never happens.

I know most people who say the above aren't this dumb, but you should really look at yourselves because the sentiment is just. fucking. moronic. When Bush announced he was going to fuck with social security, did you all say "well, we should wait until he actually does something before criticizing!"

Of course not, that's not how government works. You start organizing and opposing immediately because by the time a formal announcement is made, or a vote is scheduled, it is usually too late to stop it.

If Glenn is wrong and Obama will do the better thing on all the things Glenn has discussed, then there is no harm done. If Obama does even 1 thing differently because (even slightly) of something Glenn wrote, then it was all worthwhile, and if Obama goes and does everything the village approved way and proves Glenn's fears correct then also no harm done for having objected in advance.

All politicians need pressure to do the right thing. After the 1993 budget passed, Clinton came up to Bernie Sanders and said "You should have issued a statement complaining about the budget not having anything for the left. I could have used that to get more concessions."

Even leaders who want to do the right thing benefit from pressure from the left to do so.

No, but if you go to the link at my sig you'll see all the lyrics.

If you don't like MALACO records, that's your problem. The Sensational Nightingales record on MALACO, and that's good enough for me.

But look at this: "Obama to issue order to close Guantánamo in first week as president"

- stella ray was talking about ME -

I am one of these crazy lefties one

and if Obama is not doing what I want

I'm going home with my toys -

(Foot stomp)

And Kovie you're my man - just for today!

Did that rhyme - shoots -

but -

"wait a minute pda - stella ray -

was talking about me - has possibilities!

The Language of Death

Posted on Jan 12, 2009

By Chris Hedges

The incursion into Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel. It is not about achieving peace. The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use the lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase of the decades-long campaign to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090112_the_language_of_death/

@Jestaplero

But I think I understand your position, that all those cases should be tried in regular US court and damn the consequences, even if it means people responsible for over 3000 homicides walk free. It's principled, and I admire it, but I think the idea of setting KSM free at this point is outrageous, and would not serve the interests of justice.

If KSM cannot be released then why do we need a kangaroo court? Just lock him in a closet or put a bullet in his head.

Why do we need to stage a broadway play to announce an outcome that was preordained?

@avelna2001

Do you have a tune to go along with your lyrics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8aWcq9IOVU

"If the case against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, as it stands now, suffers from a Constitutional violation severe enough to warrant dismissal - in other words, that transferring his case to US district court would result in automatic dismissal and his freedom - do you think the interests of justice will have been served?"

Yes.

of alleged crimes against America and conspiracy to commit crimes etc etc before 9/11 took place, so why should he have to be tried on crimes he allegedly confessed to under torture?

Or...do they have anything real on him? I have yet to see it.

I maintain that KSM couldn't master mind his way to an adult bookstore.