"I heard one divorce lawyer telling his adversary"

A divorce lawyer? That's nothing. There once was a man from Nantucket . . . and you should have heard what he had to say about the Constitution. Funny thing is, I can't recall the Man from Nantucket's comments about the Const. being cited anywhere . . .

Obama has just declared for all the world to hear that he will be just another Corporate Tool in the mold of GWB. Dissappointing but not surprising. He just must love Republicans sooooo much that he can't wait to pleasure them. America stopped existing on Jan 20, 2001. From my view the ideals and dreams that built it have disappeared down the rabbit hole. We are now left with a dictatorship and a moot congress. There is no one who could get elected that has the courage to resurect the true America. Certainly not the Neocon loving Obama.

The rulers of Iran are fanatical about getting their hands on a nuclear bomb. The writers of the NIE however, seemed to understand that giving that information to the Bush administration would cause another war so I believe that they decided to put off dealing with the Iranian bomb until someone more rational (not Cheney) was in charge.

Obama now probably has the real information in his hands which shows that the Iranians are closing in on nuclear capability. How he deals with this will be very difficult, but it will be a more rational response than anything that Cheney would come up with, and the intelligence world knows it.

LOL. Interesting conspiracy theory...

Iran is fanatical about getting nukes, but yet all 16 of the intel agencies that drafted the NIE came together and lied because Bush/Cheney are even more fanatical, and none of this was leaked. Now that Obama is here, and appears more rational, they give him the real Iranian intel. Well then, it's a good thing that McCain didn't get elected, or we might have never gotten the truth!

Good idea.

"So, just to be clear: what you are saying is that, if in the case of 9/11 mastermind KSM, if he cannot be convicted in regular court due to abuses that Bush officials committed, we should just let him go? And THAT is a fair solution for the people of this country? Is that what you're really saying"

You addressed this question to some one else but I would like to deal with it myself. So, just to be clear: on what evidence do you base your contention that KSM is in fact the 9/11 Mastermind. You have only been TOLD that he is the mastermind. No one has SHOWN you that he is such. So, just to be clear...how do you know?

But ask me and I'd say that of course you let him go if you have no evidence. And that would of course be fair to any country that wishes to live under the law. Since when have you lot lost trust in the law? This lack of trust in its capacity plays straight into the handas of those in power who wish to operate either lawlessly or in some kind of supra legal sphere in which they have certain freedoms of operation not given to others obliged to live very much under the law.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, that is one of the features of fascism. Are you aware of that Jestaplero? Are you blind to this obvious fact? Or are you both aware of this fact and approve?

PDA... Thanks for pointing out the anatomical part of the day. (I'm picturing a box on Jebbie's wog) Kitt, I've looked everywhere for that curler, except there.

On what basis? Rivalry does not equal hatred, and the Persians were quite respected by the Greeks, not least Cyrus the Great, and other of its more tolerant emperors.

I thought you were making a point about the culture, not the entirely perfunctory fact that, you know, there were wars and that wars don't normally foster good vibrations.

President Bush rejected several Israeli requests last year for weapons and permission for a potential airstrike inside Iran, the author of an investigative report told CNN

There seems to be a debate even within the neocon/Likudnik soon to be Netanyahu, school of 'diplomacy' with Iran. For sure some of them want to bomb, and bomb now, but even within that faction there can be disagreements on timing. The then upcoming election in the United States had to have been a consideration.

The fact that Bush vetoed an Israeli preemptive strike on Iran could be a result of an argument about timing, not necessarily advisability.

Depending on events, (like the Russians providing Iran with modern anti-aircraft missiles), the situation in Gaza and perhaps soon, the Lebanon -- a massive Israeli preemptive strike, with the full acquiescence of Obama, is still entirely 'thinkable' option for the 44th President.

We've seen better frothing...

Let's dispense with this newfangled term of art at the outset. There is no such legally cognizable creature as "tainted evidence."

There are only two categories of evidence: admissible and inadmissible.

The exclusive category of admissible evidence is as follows: All facts, testimony, confessions, documents, etc., that survive both 4th Amendment scrutiny and, secondarily, that were obtained in accordance with the body of evidence law that governs the jurisdiction in question, i.e., state or federal.

Inadmissible evidence includes, although not exclusively, statements or "confessions" made in violation of the 4th Amendment.

"Tainted evidence" is never admissible in a criminal case.

Truth in a criminal prosecution is based solely and exclusively on admissible evidence.

"Tainted evidence" is therefore never "true," despite what Obama seems to believe.

but I think it's time for a sing-along. Come on, everybody:

Freedom isn't free

It costs folks like you and me

And if we don't all chip in

We'll never pay that bill

Freedom isn't free

No, there's a hefty fuckin' fee.

And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five

Who will?

So, just to be clear: on what evidence do you base your contention that KSM is in fact the 9/11 Mastermind. You have only been TOLD that he is the mastermind. No one has SHOWN you that he is such. So, just to be clear...how do you know?

The same is true for almost all trangressions by the Bush administration. I have only been TOLD, no one has SHOWN me such.

The public information about KSM is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed

based on which reasonable persons can come to conclusions, not about what KSM can be convicted of in a court, but about what kind of threat he poses.