Personally I think that this action has the potential to spiral out of control. How long before the suiciders start hitting you all over the world, where there is no wall to protect your people, no AC 130's. It's already begun.

The sad and predictable outcome of this is that Israel and its supporters (like Winsmith) will view this as justification for any and all Israeli actions past and future. "See? Look at all this anti-semitism. [Which must of it is, but...] We must trust only in ourselves and fight on in our defense. We were right to attack Gaza, because the whole world is our enemy, etc., etc."

I don't Bill, how many?

==> I don't know Bill, how many?

"I'd say the punchline's in Article 13, which starts:

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

Yes I'd say the punch line is there too. Furthermore I personally agree with their statement. You see it all hangs on the words "so-called" peaceful solutions. They obviously know what so many others of us in the outside world know. Israel doesn't want peace it wants their land.

Karr, I think you're mostly right. Although this time Israelis are hearing a lot on the news about support from (in addition to the US) Germany, France, the Czech Replublic (now heading the EU), as well as from some unusual sources: Egypt and Saudia Arabia.

They obviously know what so many others of us in the outside world know. Israel doesn't want peace it wants their land.

Wow, LondonLad, you should email Mahmoud Abbas and warn him!

I don't need to. He will know that there are only two options for the Palestinians, none of them good. You either stand up honestly against the Israelis with little resources and friends in the world or you become like him a corrupted little satrap gradually selling your people down the river, receiving a few trappings on the way until such time as Israel has completely achieved its objectives. Then when the day comes when your services are no longer required they will dispose of you with utter contempt for having sold your people down the river.

The ones who dig the graves are always the last to be shot.

It's called acting counter-productively. You have to stop the rockets, that is for sure. In my world you seek out the best way to do that, long term. Your way you pretty much have to kill what, half of them? All of them?

800 dead, maybe 2000 before you are done, let's say that each of the dead has 10 relatives who pick up a gun or strap on a belt, that's probably 20,000 more, and that's just in Gaza. Add in their co-religionists and fellow tribe members around the world, who are getting truly pissed- no idea, but it's a big number.

As for my genocide comment. No, Israel is not committing genocide, sorry, my mistake, wrong word. I meant plain old ordinary mass murder and collective punishment.

Please do not let the UN talk you into stopping what needs to be done to these freaking stupid people. If they really believe that they are on god's side, nevermind. You cannot teach this kind of blatant utter stupidity. This is in the bloodline. As far as one of them plotting revenge on the US or West for seeing they're family killed and becoming a suicide bomber. Get in line Mustafa. It's a pleasure to be hated by a zero. I remember in Gaza they were dancing in the streets while watching the towers fall. Cowards die a cowards death.

Aside from the brutal carnage (as if that can be brushed aside) and apart from the illegality of Israeli actions, this is really the crux of it, then, IMO. Israel may not want our advice, but, then, don't take our money. And in a Democratic US government, the voice of Democrats, who overwhelming disapprove of the Israeli offensive, should be listened to.

This is one of the points I was trying to get to yesterday.

1) If stopping the rockets is the goal, the offensive will not work, unless all Palestinians are killed.

2) The other alternative is negotiation, with no pre-condition canards to negotiation. The pre-conditions Israel sets are THE ONLY negotiating points Palestinians have. It's non-sensical to say you won't negotiate w/o x, y, z pre-conditions met. That is negotiation. It is essentially stating "we will continue to accept rocket bombings" in lieu of dropping the demands for the pre-conditions to negotiate.

3) If 1 and 2 are true, and I believe they are, Israel is contradicting their stated objective for the offensive and one has to look for other motivations.

4) Posters here and across the world come out of the woodwork to defend Israel. If this is what they do to stop rockets AND this isn't working, will they (do they) work just as hard to convince their own representatives to pursue the other alternative, namely peace negotiations, in good faith, no "pre-conditions."

I agree with every word you wrote.

If they really believe that they are on god's side, nevermind.

The Hamas charter is formally called "The Charter of Allah: The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)"

Everyone who's interested in the middle east should read this filthy document, which includes the following:

"Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors."

"Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief."

"[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

"The Muslim women have a no lesser role than that of men in the war of liberation; they manufacture men and play a great role in guiding and educating the [new] generation. The enemies have understood that role, therefore they realize that if they can guide and educate [the Muslim women] in a way that would distance them from Islam, they would have won that war. Therefore, you can see them making consistent efforts [in that direction] by way of publicity and movies, curricula of education and culture, using as their intermediaries their craftsmen who are part of the various Zionist Organizations which take on all sorts of names and shapes such as: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, gangs of spies and the like."

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Damn! They're hip to the Rotary Clubs.

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The Hamas Charter:

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:T-e99pjS9VoJ:www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html+hamas+charter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=opera