Yes, I do believe that the US should cut off aid unless Israel ceases construction of new or in existing settlements. I have long opposed both the settlement policy and think it extremely counterproductive. Yes, I do think we need to send an envoy to twist arms on both sides and start negotiations from the point of cut off at Taba. Yes, I think we should try and see if negotiations between Israel and Syria can pick up from the not-so-secret negotiations that were ongoing before Sharon's stroke. Yes, I think that we should talk to Hamas and offer an olive branch and participation in government as we did in Lebanon with Hezbollah in the recent Lebanese governmental deal---it worked in the current crisis as Hezbollah does not want to jeopardize its political gains by opening a new front.

I hate the never ending war. Where I disagree with many of the posters here (and by the way, to the guy who called me "chickenshit" for not identifying the posters who made Nazi references in their posts--here you go: Titowan, Eating Raul, Silash, Dawkinsfan00, SunnyAfternoon, huru-ur and Ondelette---I have not had time yet to count the posters who challenge Israel's existence) is that what they really want is for Israel to lose and go away. As long as there is war, with a country surrounded by 500 million Arabs and another 300 million other Muslims currently united in their hatred for Israel, the only response to what Hamas did is all out war. Again, note that Hezbollah might have cried out in victory in 2006, but they have no stomach for a second round. Deterrence is the only strategy---a war of attrition is guaranteed to be an Israeli loss. So let's not support the starting of wars---by anyone. Let's figure out a way out of this---they were so close in 2000.

You shouldn't have included Ondolette in your list. I would have to go back to the archives to disprove your assertion with the others, since I don't know them that well, but I read everything Ondolette posts, and its just not in him.

Meanwhile, your talking points are violently colliding with your desire to see peace between Palestinians and Israelis.

Especially JohnathanInTelAviv, who has nothing but contempt for American citizens, and only cares about them insofar as they are willing to blindy bankrupt their country and put themselves in danger taking bullets and absorbing bombs for Zionists.

What part of their shtick are the apologists at?

Is it the first part? Where they come in here thumping their chest, claiming that all the Palestinians subhumans must die?

Or are they at the next part? Where they throw out their mealy-mouthed half truth talking points trying to play the framing game while calling everyone antisemitic?

Or are they at the part where they get smacked down and either disappear for while (usually when the people that smack them down ask a question the apologists won't/can't answer), only to come back and appear later and try to repeat the process?

Or are they at the point where they throw out the "Hey guy, why all the hate? I just want to act as a cheerleader for American and Zionist militarism. We may disagree on the US supporting atrocities committed with its citizens' tax dollars, but on other things we agree. See, you and I are not so different after all!" shtick?

Watch out for this oo fellow. He stalks Jews on the internet all night and day, especially Jews who do not think you should all committ suicide, and live in perfect peace with the neighbors who are bound and determined to kill you. Don't you people know you should turn the other cheek?

What happens when you run out of cheeks to turn? I guess he thinks when you are all dead you will also be in perfect peace.

I have an Israeli pal here named Baruch who is quite left of center and hates the black hats of Israel with a passion, because he used to drive on Shabbat and they would shake their fists at him and yell at him. He was quite the pacifist for a long time even though he served during the Yom Kippur War. Although he dreams of living in peace back in the land of olives some day, he did get rather insensed when his tiny daughter, Shoshanna, kept getting beaten up and pushed around at school by a bully boy. He sent her to tae kwan do where she quietly studied several days a week after school for about 3 years. It was really funny when her worst tormenter got his ass kicked by a skinny girl named Shoshanna one fine day.

These people are not anti-semites. No no no. They love the Jews as long as we make nice, invent wonderful vaccines and drugs, tutor their kids with their math and, of course, never never fight. You should forget about Judah and David, Jonathan, and never fight. They will look after you and make sure you do not get hurt.

Trust me. I'm not Bernie Madoff.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

what they really want is for Israel to lose and go away

Permalinks.

Let me put it in caps and bold:

PERMALINKS.

If you level a charge at someone, you should be able to substantiate it with evidence. That's just the minimal standard of honesty in debate, and trivially easy to do on line.

It's fine to say "I agree with commenter so-and-so, they aren't taking this into account, or their reasoning is flawed," etc. What's not fine, and what is in fact chickenshit is to say, "my interlocutors want to see Israel destroyed," rather than making a coherent argument and backing it up.

Put up or STFU.

he did get rather insensed when his tiny daughter, Shoshanna, kept getting beaten up and pushed around at school by a bully boy. He sent her to tae kwan do where she quietly studied several days a week after school for about 3 years. It was really funny when her worst tormenter got his ass kicked by a skinny girl named Shoshanna one fine day.

-- Lotus Feet

I think they already used that one up in The Karate Kid I through II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NfkH3Q4JOQ