from that article that you posted.

"Since the shelling from Gaza started in 2001, 20 Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets or mortars, according to a tabulation by Israeli human rights groups."

If that figure is correct it would mean on average 2.5 Israeli deaths per annum over the passed eight years.

That's probably about the same number of Israelis who have died over the same time through being stung by bees.

I see the ignorant "right to exist" argument all the time. No government has a "right to exist" --- people do.

To solve the situation in Palestine, one needs to realize that there has been a huge influx of murdering land grabbers from Europe who have invaded the land of Palestine. They always have claimed to be a victim of some sort, even as they murder Palestinian children in their homes. They have now stolen over 90 percent of the land that the natives held before the Europeans invaded this time.

As a country, we (USA) could at least realize that we should not help in this slow motion genocide; even if we are very good at that sort of thing.

"I've no dog in the 9-11 truth fight"

Yes you do, we all do. Even "having no dog in the fight" is in fact "having a dog in the fight." In fact all our lives depend on it whether we know or care to know about it or not.

"Anyway I only watched that youtube snippet Glenn posted to see what Chomsky says"

Do me a favour mate and provide the link to Chomsky chomping on about 9/11. I'm bored right now and could use a good hollow laugh.

There are plenty of places to talk about this online.

The only reason Glenn has given for not talking about it here - other than the fact it's O/T - is that the opponents get locked into their positions very early, and then the trench warfare for the rest of the thread chokes out any on-topic dialogue.

I'd ask you guys to respect Glenn's request. Thanks.

The Palestinian refugees have been played and used by the people who are supposed to look out for their interests. As refugees they are a thorn in the side of Israel and the world but they only have the Arab leaders to blame for their status. As refugees they are easily indoctrinated into anti-Jewish, anti-west hate filled killing machines to further the aim and fatten the wallets of their oppressors, the Arab leadership. One can liken it to the scepter of perpetual victimization that has been used so effectively in the U.S. by the black leadership. Arafat was the master of this.

***

I don’t accept your premise that a Palestinian state will result in a blood bath. Israel has returned the Sinai, the Golan Heights and the Suez Canal. While Jewish settlements have been illegally built, the Israelis evicted the Gaza settlers in 2005 (forcibly in some cases) and are willing to do what must be done within their own borders to bring about a two state system. It’s time for the Arab leadership to stop calling for the extermination of Israel if they are serious about peace. Until that happens I will staunchly support Israel’s right to protect their borders.

I'll let omooex address your specific historical points since he'd know better than me the history of this. However, among other things, Israel has not returned the Golan Heights to Syria.

Apart from that, why should Palestinians be dependent on anyone who are "supposed to look out for their interests"? Would you depend on anyone to do so for you? I know I wouldn't. Palestinians aren't children. They're fully capable of looking out for their own interests.

And "a thorn in the side of Israel and the world"? Look at what you're saying. These are people who've been deprived and denied of their homes, in the broadest sense of the word (homeland).

"As refugees they are easily indoctrinated into anti-Jewish, anti-west hate filled killing machines to further the aim and fatten the wallets of their oppressors, the Arab leadership."

For Pete's sake, Palestinians aren't a population of 15-year-olds "easily indoctrinated into anti-Jewish, anti-west hate filled killing machines." Where do you get this stuff?

"the Israelis ... are willing to do what must be done within their own borders to bring about a two state system."

This is simply not true. While the settlers were evicted, Israel maintained (and maintains) control over every facet of Gazan existence. When a master decides what can and cannot be sold, shipped, delivered, or who can/cannot receive medical treatment in Gaza (due to equipment and power failures), or in Israel (due to Israeli blockades on medicines and medical equipment), then a state of slavery exists.

I'll note one final thing and stop: It’s time for the Arab leadership to stop calling for the extermination of Israel if they are serious about peace.

Where did this come from? It's a pretty sorry mis-direction to suddenly speak of "Arab leadership" as the ostensible roadblock to peace. The specific parties, here/now/always, are the Palestinians and Israelis.

If that figure is correct it would mean on average 2.5 Israeli deaths per annum over the passed eight years.
That's probably about the same number of Israelis who have died over the same time through being stung by bees.-- LondonLad

Not true. It is global insistence that borders are sacrosanct (except for Israel) and anything within those borders is internal politics and out of bounds for anyone to physically interfere.
Zimbabwe, Somalia, Iraq, and Darfur, are but a few examples. The UN is actually the United Brotherhood of Dictators and Thugs, Local 12.

At exactly the time that worldwide horror over this war is at its peak, the Democratic-led Congress steps up to announce to the world: "this is our war, too; we support whatever Israel does absolutely and without reservations." We thus make Israel's wars our wars; its enemies our enemies; its intractable disputes our disputes; and the hostility and anger it generates our own. And we embolden Israel to continue further.

And we expect the Iraqi people freely to elect a pro-US government that will welcome a permanent occupation, to place a base in the middle east, in part, in defense of Israel.