Please. You've both stated your views. I really don't want the discussion to veer off into an endless debate over 9/11 theories. There are lots of places on the Internet to do that if that's what you want to discuss.

"In Beit Suhur outside Bethlehem, I have seen IDF troops shoot at Palestinian Christian women hanging out laundry in their gardens. This was done with tank coaxial machine guns from within a bermed up dirt fort a couple of hundred yards away, and evidently just for the fun of it. In Bethlehem a lieutenant told me that he would have had his men shoot me in the street during a demonstration that I happened to get caught in, but that he had not because he thought I might not be a Palestinian and that if I were not the incident would have caused him some trouble. I have seen a lot of things like that. One might say that in war, s--t happens. That is true, but such behavior is indicative of an army that is not well disciplined and not a completely reliably instrument of state policy. In my travels in the west Bank in March of 2008, it was noticeable that the behavior towards Palestinian civilians of IDF troops at roadblocks was reminiscent of that of any group of post-adolescents given guns and allowed to bully the helpless in order to look tough for each other. I think the IDF would be well advised to grow some real sergeants."

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/01/the-idf-ground.html#more

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so nice to have continuity in government and award winning excellence in the propaganda effort - support from the very beginning to the bitter end -

all this murder and torture for your pleasant plot of sand by the mediterranean - and so much more entertaining than straight out stealing it i suppose - dear americans are so very generous for a good parade, and the unmentionables over there put on such a good show with their captive audience -

all this and, position, position, position real estate with such beautiful views from atop of mt. zion for the 'ists to watch the ongoing and excellent new years fireworks too - so much more advanced than the roman games with those boring christian puppets, well now they are in government, true puppets for the cause -

aaah the pictures of those oh so brave soldiers doing the noddy prayer dance before going off to kill - yes, religion, truly masterful at crumbling the brain to dust - and man, the believer, killing himself - enjoy the show -

and so it goes - and probably this simple message too -

well, who's next? . . . surely this is just another brick in the wall . . .

this is sick.

It is not cheer leading to approve of a necessary action taken with great restraint after years of unprovoked attacks by Hamas.

The tragedy of the people in Gaza is directly related to their support of Hamas, and their support of the fighters when they attempt to kill Israelis. It is Hamas who is responsible for the population it controls, not Israel who withdrew from Gaza years ago.

Leon

If the conspiracy truly runs that deep and is that Byzantine, we're all just pissing in the wind thinking anything we say or do about anything means anything (and so are you, because do you seriously think the planners didn't account for your seeing through their elaborate ruse?). Leave us our illusion of a somewhat-rational world, please? If it's all going to go to hell no matter what we do, can you at least let us have some fun on the way?

How anyone can actually cheer wholesale slaughter is beyond me.

Israel has been shelled and bombed nearly constantly, albeit intermittently, since the state's inception. The situation in Gaza did not occur in a vacuum, but through a decades-long, sad tug-of-war. I feel certain that I will be told by some that this is irrelevant, as though Gaza and Israel were invented yesterday.

The death toll of Hamas' long-standing missile campaign against civilians is low because bomb shelters are considered a necessary feature of Israeli architecture, and because of a highly effective warning system. It's not from lack of sincere effort on the part of Hamas, or because the missiles aren't good enough. The warheads of the missiles are filled with shrapnel which can go quite a long way at deadly speed, after impact.

Undoubtedly, someone will cut/paste from the above and dash off an angry reply about the wall around Gaza, and the conditions there. The wall was not built out of some kind of genocidal desire on the part of the Israelis. It was built because eating in a cafe, or riding a bus, could suddenly and explosively become a capital offense, at any moment.

The current action in Gaza is not intended to kill civilians, by anyone but Hamas, spokesmen of whom have explicitly endorsed the practice, and no one seriously argues that fact, either. In addition, Hamas has recently executed and maimed a good number of suspected Israeli collaborators.

Hamas, in its charter, specifically rejects the very idea of negotiation for peace. They also state that the only possibility of peace is an Islamic state. Hamas is the government of Palestine, not merely some militant group.

Yet so many of you, like Glenn, who are quick to judge Israel's actions in the harshest, most damning terms possible (one-sided massacre), act as though Hamas doesn't really mean it, that they're somehow playing around, and can be a serious negotiating partner.

The deliberate use of men, women and children as human shields by Hamas is every bit as evil as Israel's attack (IMO, more so). Its a cynical, callous and murderous ploy, and it's working out great for them, because the moral people can only see the evil of the attack. Hamas should be roundly condemned, in the harshest terms possible, for using this tactic, consistently and loudly. If the objective is to save lives, and not merely point fingers at Israel, it's imperative.