Msgkings, do you not see a problem with the following two statements, in the same post? You wrote:

"Buddy, calmate! Chillax. You're so enraged you don't even read the posts you attack."

And then ended with:

"Anyhoo, back to the original Greenwald post. Your tribalism seems to be AMERICAN tribalism...you could care less about either dog in the Gaza fight, you don't want your tribe involved. They are all subhuman, as nonAmericans."

So, according to your metric, if someone thinks we are not obligated to fight everyone else's wars, and give them cash we do not have, it means that person thinks those fighting the wars are all subhuman?

Incidentally, if you're going to castigate someone for not being calm, perhaps you should follow your own advice. It may help to make the rest of what you say worth reading.

--Ron

Struck a nerve?

Anyhoo, back to the original Greenwald post. Your tribalism seems to be AMERICAN tribalism...you could care less about either dog in the Gaza fight, you don't want your tribe involved. They are all subhuman, as nonAmericans.

Your straw man arguments would be ridiculous if they weren't so absurd.

--- How is this a straw man? And how is it ridiculous or absurd? I think I have you pegged. You don't think so? Let's hear why. Show your work.

Let's face it these forums are simply a harmless way for folks who get off on opinions and erudition and occasionally mudslinging and argument to have a little fun. When we're done, we're done. I hope you learn something now and then here Sinnard. I know I do.

What else could Israel actually do? Try to negotiate? Palestine doesn't honour cease fires. It just point blank doesn't. The choice is between firing back, or sitting back and taking rocket attacks.

And one can't say "Hamas not Palestine" made war on Israel anymore than one could say "Bush not America" made war on Iraq. Palestine elected Hamas, just like America elected Bush.

War is horrible. There are no barbarians and civilised people in war, there are dead people and the people who killed them. It is something anybody with any sense wants to avoid, but if someone insists on making war on you, honestly, what else are you supposed to do?

Not sure I understand your post...I'll be here a little longer but pretty tired and also getting a little bored.

Over the last week, Mr. Greenwald has presented several viewpoints that the US policy of consistent and unconditional support of Israel should be reconsidered. If the US is to consider a rethinking of its policy in Israel, there are several factors to look at.

1: If the US changes its policy, what is the likely change in policy of Israel's neighbors? Hamas, knowing that we have changed our policy as a direct result of Hamas launching a military attacks, even an unsuccessful ones, may embolden them. After all they are now asking for cease fire under conditional terms to which they would be rewarded for democratically electing a government whose charter is to destroy Israel. And what of Syria and Iran? If support of Israel is decreased either militarily or politically, will Iran miscalculate or expedite more attacks against Israel or cause more mischief in the region?

2: What will the effect of other allies depending on our support who now witness a change in policy from Hamas limited attacks? What will our ally Taiwan think? Will they now feel more or less secure in China's military actions in the China sea knowing we could change our support? And what of countries like Poland or other former Soviet satellites looking to us for help against aggressive governments or regimes? Other countries around the world look to us for support and leadership. What does it say to them if balk at that support due to some unsuccessful attacks?

3: What is Al-Queda likely to do, if anything? They at a minimum will use that change in policy to recruit. It is precisely the action of US withdrawal of support in both Lebanon and Somalia that led Bin Laden to attack the US on 9/11. It was our attitude before WW2 of non-intervention or neutrality that led the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor.

One cannot think that a change in US policy of military support for Israel is somehow only linked to the Israel/Palestinian problem.

In the terms of president elect Obama's favorite pastime, the US should be giving a full court press to diplomacy, and not a reduction of military support.

Yeah, you've got me pegged alright, and from reading your letters, you have me pegged just like you pegged our current economic crisis back in Feb. If you want to label me, label me an Anarchist, just don't expect any prize for all of your hard work. Now go back to worshiping the Fed.

Interesting point, I didn't think I was being shrill or strident. Certainly less so than Chris S.

And I didn't think I implied the isolationist impulse implied viewing others as subhuman. Maybe I was inartful. I was referring to the unconscious tribal biases Greenwald began this thread discussing. How much of non-interventionism comes from a place of rejecting the rest of the world as 'the Other' and thinking only of one's American 'tribe'? I do wonder...

You don't support taking sides in other countries' conflicts

Therefore you are an American Tribalist

Therefore you think that everyone who isn't American is subhuman.

Pretty solid argument right there!

See you in Q408!

Look Out! msgkings is backing up!

Yeah, you've got me pegged alright, and from reading your letters, you have me pegged just like you pegged our current economic crisis back in Feb. If you want to label me, label me an Anarchist, just don't expect any prize for all of your hard work. Now go back to worshiping the Fed.

---I guess I got to you then, looking through past posts of mine? Whatever, man, the world will do what it do, I and my family will be fine, our country and our world will also be fine. No amount of listening to Rage Against the Machine and reading Naomi Klein will change that, homey.

Perhaps you think our country is doomed, our world is doomed, etc. You don't have me convinced. Nor most of the world. Which will continue to do its thing regardless of your rage.