It was great! I was completely unaware of that song, and it stumped my wife when she came home. Thanks for mentioning it. The lyrics are quite something. I would probably never have known about it if you hadn't mentioned it!

dare i suggest that the majority of salon also seems to have gone to sleep during this killing field . . .

The actual Black Nationalists I've known would never allow themselves to be portrayed as such nitwits with such blinkered and idiotic focus as the purported anti-American-Apartheid speaker here.

On a previous thread there was some discussion about two science fiction films titled "The Day The Earth Stood Still", the one currently running in cinemas and an earlier one from several decades ago. I have seen neither film, but understand that the current one involves evil aliens coming to wipe out poor innocent little humanity.

It occurs to me that I would be cheering for the evil aliens. If I were an alien I would be support the genocide of the human race and would say that there is considerable urgency to get it done before humanity breaks free of the mud ball and starts committing genocide on all other life forms in the universe.

The name that our species has for itself is "Homo Sapiens" which is Latin for "man the wise". However a more appropriate name (I don't know the Latin) would be "Man The Hypocrite". The defining characteristic of humans is the ability to maintain double standards while being genuinely unaware of doing so. One only has to look at the flame wars going on in this and other GG threads. There exist people who are not only incapable of listening to other's points of view but incapable of understanding that points of view other than there own exist.

Hypocrisy is deeply embedded in human nature and it is this that makes solution of problems such as that of Israel/Palestine impossible.

... and I've decided you're right. This is a waste of my time. I was looking for a place where interesting ideas can be debated and issues can be discussed. What's here, unfortunately, is a mob: a self-congratulatory, closed-minded exercise in mutual mental masturbation. So long, wankers. Enjoy yourselves.

Fine. Use whatever damn terms you want. Ignore the thrust of my message. Do whatever you like.

El Cid,

I'm not sure why you're so angry with me. That is the proper definition of Zionism from the Jewish Virtual Library.

The problem I see today, is Zionists using the word "anti-semite" synonymously with "anti-zionist".

It's a rhetorical tactic. Zionism was a political ideology born in the 1890s - nearly half a century before Hitler. Judaism is a religion that dates back - God knows how many centuries.

I just think it's VERY important to distinguish between the two when talking about Israel in order to avoid the usual bombardment of rhetoric spin and cover behind "anti-semite".

Now, you're proposing distinguishing between zionists? I just don't understand how that would be possible when the zionists are so cloaked, as it is, under the Judaism shelter.

Neo-cons are a subset of zionists. So are Evangelicals. How would you propose breaking zionists into subsets?

Either you're for ethnic cleansing, along religious lines, or you're not...

I got one for you Cid, and it's of Arabic origin, too (I think)

The word is "alchohol" There's no law against posting after hoisting a few.

he's been around for awhile under different names

lol lol

The defining characteristic of humans is the ability to maintain double standards while being genuinely unaware of doing so. One only has to look at the flame wars going on in this and other GG threads. There exist people who are not only incapable of listening to other's points of view but incapable of understanding that points of view other than there own exist.

Hypocrisy is deeply embedded in human nature and it is this that makes solution of problems such as that of Israel/Palestine impossible.

-- The EvilOne

Well, Gee Whiz, Fella. When they are lobbing little teensie weenie rockets into an otherwise intelligent conversation, we have a right to invade their territory and stomp them out.

No?

I'm not proposing distinguishing between zionists as a method of conveying a debate to the general public.

I'm suggesting that the use of the term 'zionist' mostly restricts the impact of the debate to people already used to using the term, in one way or another.

I'm proposing that the use of the term "zionist" in a broad debate on I/P matters is quite useless, a waste of time, like being committed to using the phrase "disestablishmentarianism" -- i.e., if it's really what you want to do, go ahead, but I'm completely unconvinced by your suggestion that the use of this, to American-ears, 19th century and obscurantist term will help matters one bit.

If I don't use it, it's not because I'm unaware of its meanings (and yes, there are more meanings than even the Jewish Virtual Library might suggest), or afraid of it or afraid that active self-labeled Zionists might take offense.

The term an-Nakba is really powerful to Palestinians, but it's not a term I use much, either, unless I'm specifically trying to explain common Palestinian concerns and views.

I have said and will say it again, Glenn Greenwald is the reason, Salon stands alone as the epitome of journalistic integrity and intellectual honesty.

As an African-American, Glenn reminds me of one wonderful lady who passed away on thursday,January 1, 2008 who was the lone voice against apartheid in South African parliament.Helen Suzman, the doyenne of the anti-apartheid revolutionaries singled out for opprobrium. The powers that were went after her with a vengeance, calling her every name imaginable; but that petite jewish lady was as solid as a rock against injustice and the powerful white government, oppresing the black South Africans, with their draconian and abominable laws.

I hope that Glenn does not give up or is intimidated by the powerful interests railing against him. Listening to the Senate majority leader, Reid and his regurgitation of Israeli official propaganda today before "Meet the Press" made me both sad and fearful. Sad that our leaders words and actions have deprived us of any semblance of an honest broker nation.Fearful that nothing will change with the incoming administration as the Democratic leadership sees no daylight between its stand and that of the Bush administration when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at a time we need more peace in that part of the region.

The problem is by our leaders being seen as capitulating to Israel's domestic policies we jeorpardize the moderate Arab governments in the region that in turn will widen the conflict making it even more intractable as we deal with the problems in other areas, Iraq, Afghanistan/Pakistan and India.

How comical if not tragic to see the current secretary of state, Condi Rice sauntering towards the microphone repeating the same statement she made when Israel invaded lebanon regarding the current Israel's assault on Garza. She only substituted Hamas for Hezbollah.It is another cycle and US foreign policy is the poorer for it. We never learn.