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Sunday, January 4, 2009 12:00 AM

Orwell, blinding tribalism, selective Terrorism, and Israel/Gaza

Extreme emotional and cultural identification with one side leads people to believe that X is good when done by them and evil when done to them.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Monday, January 5, 2009 05:06 PM

Vox

One of the things I admire about Glenn is that he keeps his errors, missteps and bad decisions up, correcting them with updates, but letting everyone see the process by which he is bringing information to the reader. He took the step of posting the video because he felt it was necessary to show the damage done by Israeli attacks. He didn't take it down, even after it was shown more or less to be a hoax; he took responsibility for the error and did so in a very obvious manner.

But surely you know that five hundred Palestinians have been killed by similar explosives. Do you imagine that Israel's bombs don't do similar damage? Do you think that 500 people vanished in a puff of smoke as in the movies?

Monday, January 5, 2009 04:58 PM

@Glenn

Glenn said in the Update

"This truly horrific video -- purportedly of a recent Israeli bombing of a civilian Gazan market -- has been widely cited. I can't and don't vouch for its authenticity"

If you can't have reasonable assurances to the video's authenticity, why post it all? Aren't you either lowering your journalistic standards of evidence or assisting in false propaganda at best? How objective is that to post a video of such nature?

You should remove it. Otherwise your critics may say you are participating in 'fear' mongering.

Monday, January 5, 2009 04:50 PM

@DavidByron

Someone elsewhere informed me that Mr Greenwald is gay and living in Brazil. Neither things interest me.

D Byron

Not even a little? Sambas? Carnival? Jobim tunes, in the air all the time (got me right there), and the boys from Ipanema, tall and tan and young and lovely? That doesn't interest you a little. Sure, Dave. Sure. Hot, hot Brazilian men, soaking up the sun, their gorgeous bronzed limbs slathered in exotic organic suntan oils, glances of frank erotic interest follow you down the beach from dark eyes, a card with a telephone number dropped as if casually on your beach towel while you are in the water, and then later...

Byron, you don't fool me at all. If you weren't interested, you wouldn't be fantasizing this way. You had better watch it Dave, lest you end up like the guy in that Thomas Mann story.

But don't say I didn't warn you, Dave!

Monday, January 5, 2009 04:47 PM

@ 60christine

Anyone with half a brain can see that Israel must defend itself and that the Palestinians have actually FORCED Israel to take drastic actions.

_____________________________________________

There you have the advantage of me.

Monday, January 5, 2009 04:43 PM

Murderous Israeli attack on Gaza part of scheme to prevent emergence of independent Palestine

John Bolton gives us the neocon game plan, regarding the current murderous Israeli onslaught against Gaza. The idea is to cripple Hamas so that Israel can make deals as it pleases to keep permanently large portions of the West Bank. Bolton would prefer that Palestine disappear entirely.

Great piece!

Monday, January 5, 2009 04:40 PM

@Rob H

maybe you should learn to spell the thing you practice.

Oh, that's easy! Watch this: P-I-A-N-O

I'm not saying I'm much good, but I do practice.

Monday, January 5, 2009 04:39 PM

@Valkyrie607 / Monday, January 5, 2009 01:00 AM (page 82 of the comments)

Firstly I am reading some odd comments about some sort of rule about not directly addressing other commentators although everyone seems to do it. Selective enforcement of such regularly breached rules is always good cover for banning people so I wouldn't want to break any rules but I don't see any. Does such a rule exist?

So to Valkyrie607 (my regards to the other 606), who said,

"It's an absolutely natural, and by no means immoral thing to emotionally support and root for the tribe of the people who raised you."

And then went on to say,

"Unfortunately, the leadership of most nations of the world seem to consist of a quasi-conspiracy of psychopaths--people who have no empathy for either their tribe or humanity as a whole."

Doesn't your second statement undermine your first? Why not just call a spade a spade is what I am saying here. Why continue to pretend that the concept of "patriotism" is a good thing despite all the evidence of your eyes?

Someone elsewhere informed me that Mr Greenwald is gay and living in Brazil. Neither things interest me. He is an American and his tribe is the American tribe and as a result he cannot bring himself to seriously consider the possibility that the enemies of America act morally or lawfully, as with his knee-jerk attack on Hamas. Valkyrie607 may feel the same way from this statement:

"Shouldn't Palestinians introspect this way also? Shouldn't they ask whether their support for the deaths of Israeli citizens is really justified and logical or just the result of emotional attachments?"

It seems a shame to me that even at that late point in the huge conversation back and forth that people who were even supporting Palesinians would tend to accept the Israeli propaganda position that Hamas "started it" or that Hamas provoked this massacre, or that Israeli was reacting to something or that the massacre was a response.

I will link to the opinion of the UN special rapporteur for the Palestinian Territories who was kicked out of Gaza several weeks ago in the lead up to the planned massacre. This is the quote on the question of who started it:

QUOTE

"There was no substantial rocket fire from Gaza during the ceasefire until Israel launched an attack on what it claimed were Palestinian militants in Gaza, killing a half dozen persons. Also, it was Hamas that on numerous public occasions called for extending the truce, with its calls never acknowledged, much less acted upon, by Israeli officialdom. Beyond this, attributing the rockets to Hamas is not entirely convincing either.

A variety of independent militia groups operate in Gaza; and some, such as the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, are anti-Hamas, and may even be sending rockets to provoke or justify Israeli retaliation. It is well confirmed that when moderate Fatah controlled Gaza's governing structure, it was unable to stop rocket attacks despite its efforts to do so.

What this background suggests strongly is that Israel launched its devastating attacks, starting on Dec. 27, not to stop the rockets or in retaliation, but for a series of other reasons. It was evident for several weeks prior to the Israeli attacks that the Israeli military and political leaders were preparing the public for large-scale military operations against the Hamas."

UNQUOTE

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gardels/the-uns-richard-falk-gaza_b_154523.html

While Americans have shown the ability to question the morality and legality of their own government's actions (at least while their favourite political party is in opposition) they don't seem to be able to admit that their enemies may be moral and act legally.

Even if you think a case can be made that Hamas or Al Qaeda acted immorally or illegally Mr Greenwald never made such a case. He simply stated it in a way that he would never dream of doing for Israel or the US.

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