A WINNER!

link at sig

@zenwick: "Read Miss Manners sometime."

But when you advocate bombing my people, members of my family, my friends, etc., and when you tell me that my whole existence is a lie thought up by Arabs to annoy Israelis, then yes I take it personally. I've had these conversations over and over and I've realized one thing; the people proposing such things aren't interested in peace, they aren't interested in resolution. They like to fight, and they like it when the repurcussions of that fight have nothing to do with them. They like to advocate physical violence against you without mediation or diplomacy, but they want you to have a civil conversation with them as they do it.

Well, I'm sorry and I ask no one to agree with me or back me up. Its obviously not anti-semitism (I don't even know if you're Jewish), but if someone is looking me in the eye and telling me that its a good idea to kill me or my father or others like us when there are bombs falling on Palestine, I'm going to knock their teeth out.

I'm happy to hear that you speak with Jews. You must have me confused with someone else, as you did once before, because I never said, nor would I say, any of the things you accuse me of above. My position, as stated several times in the past couple of days, is that:

• This is a situation where two peoples aspire to a homeland, and each has valid arguments
• The primary difference between them is that most Palestinians would prefer not to accept a state that does not include all of the current Jewish state - that is, unless Israel is destroyed
• I disagree with the current incursion into Gaza, not because I don't believe Israel has the right to defend itself against rockets, but because I think it is counter-productive

Which of these positions makes you wish to knock my teeth out? Or perhaps I said something else you can point to as the reason for your aggressive statements against me?

Thanks, it's nice to be celebrated, if only here.

Have you, by the way?

I strongly applaud the idea of banning abusive posters, and I look forward to it. I enjoy debate with intelligent people, of whom there are many here, but I find some of the invective and profanity painful. I think you should clarify the rules so people understand them, and you should enforce them.

Politeness and civility, while it's Glenn's general MO and preference, is not required here. Glenn tolerates less-than-polite discourse. What gets banned are those that try to kill threads or that persist in empty and defamatory conduct.

Cheers,

Is this a WAR CRIME?-- bamage

I don't believe so.

To be honest, though I've heard a range of analyses, I can't yet feel like I've settled on what the goal of this 6-month planned assault on Gaza is.

You're right in that no one should take seriously the argument of each and every year that the latest representatives of Palestine are terrorist and unacceptable to the Israelis, as that has been the excuse every day and every year for generations now.

For its own sake, Hamas appears to be thinking this will somehow be useful for it, though I doubt it will be as clear a victory as the Israeli attack in Lebanon of 2006 proved to be for Hizbullah.

Heru-ur is right, the links on that post are something else. It seems that the author, Margaret Griffis, is one of the people that finds news links for antiwar.com.

Her friend emailed her this:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/sfl-forum01gazapnjan01,0,1906624.story

And she found these:

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20081231/OPINION06/812310312

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-harris_31edi.State.Edition1.281502e.html

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/harris/entry/why_israel_had_no_choice

That is some good propagandizing.

As far as Israel and its partisans are concerned, all Palestinians are irredeemably wicked, it is not anything they do, they were born that way.

As far as the Palestinians and their partisans are concerned, all Israelis are irredeemably wicked, it is not anything they do, they were born that way.

Wow, I knew they controlled Hollywood, the banks and the media, but Jews also invented anti-Semitism itself? It's all part of their brilliant methods of covert control -- make the world think that millions of people hate Jews, then abuse that guilt and sympathy to gain global power.

Amazing!!

Hey, wake me when you get to the part where Jews fight Superman.

You just made my point! You just conveniently wrote a rhetorical smokescreen of anti-semitic canards to then suggest that the very scrutiny of your rhetorical tactic is in itself anti-semitism.

This is your ONLY rebuttal. "Anti-semitism, anti-semitism, anti-semitsm". And meanwhile your tribe continues to ethnically cleanse the occupied territories.

May I submit that Glenn's shrillness and appeal to emotionality, which are evident in all of his writings, are a proximate cause of the intemperance obscuring a helpful discussion here.

Where??? I missed it. I do so love a good tug at the heartstrings....

Cheers,

Glenn is a brilliant guy, or I wouldn't be here, but he is nothing if not shrill.

All I can say is: etiquette exists for a reason. Read Miss Manners sometime.

People are people, and sometimes the world is (and the arts are) better for it. Read Ann Landers some time, and maybe you'll twig to that fact.

And I eat my chicken with my fingers.

Cheers,

The primary difference between them is that most Palestinians would prefer not to accept a state that does not include all of the current Jewish state - that is, unless Israel is destroyed

Do you have some facts to back that statement up? Or do you really not want to be taken seriously?

It's like, you say, "let's be friends!", while poking someone in the eye.

"The Palestinians, on the other hand, have always had leadership that placed the destruction of Israel above all else. Keeping their people starved and jobless is what has always convinced people like you to feel sorry for them, so that's part of their basic strategy. If the Palestinians have been robbed, it is by their own leaders."

"As I said, my friend, YOU are the problem, and you are on public display here. I'm sure your feelings are very sincere, and are shared wholeheartedly by terrorists everywhere."

"The difference is, with few exceptions, the Palestinians seem unwilling to accept a state of their own unless Israel is destroyed as part of the deal."

"I personally find the militarism of Israeli society a terrible thing, and I wish I could change it. However, it is a natural outcome of being under attack from many directions for many years. I can assure you that Israelis consciously try to rise above human nature, but I don't suppose they always succeed."

"The Palestinian strategy (ever since there was, politically, such a thing as "Palestine") has been to keep themselves indigent to arouse sympathy, and to keep themselves in the news by committing acts of terrorism."

"So obviously you are unaware that, prior to the adoption of this policy, ambulances were a popular method of smuggling suicide vests, etc., into Israel from Gaza and the West Bank? The checkpoints exist to protect Israelis from suicide bombings and other terror attacks, and they seem to be doing a reasonably good job. The Israelis unfortunately have a lot of experience in protecting themselves from terrorists, and you unfortunately seem to have no clue."

"Only when it's Jews "oppressing" your beloved Palestinian terrorists, are you eager to pick up the flag?"

"I have never heard any other allegation that artillery was used at Jenin since the PLO's "massacre" claims during the battle were discredited, shortly after the battle. I think the claim of "lobbing" artillery is simply disinformation."

In every instance, you excuse Israeli movement restrictions and attacks, because Palestinians are horrible "terrorists" who "keep themselves destitute" to get media attention, while they attack defenseless Israel. You are the worst form of coward.