For the record...."Give Ireland Back to The Irish" was not a Beatles collaboration.

It was a Paul McCartney solo tune.

True, that. But John and Yoko protested on behalf of the green Irish cause. Anyway, that was so long ago I only remember the song at all because it suited my emotional attachment to a country and cause that I did not sufficiently examine before I (briefly) gave $$ to "my tribe" without fully understanding the grotesque violence I was thereby supporting.

As soon as I did, I felt quite guilty. (But I've never lost my emotional attachment to the cause of Catholic Ireland. And as Glenn says, one must be especially careful when the tribal lizard brain is dictating to one's reasoning faculties.)

Moreover, Glenn once again fails to state what is so morally reprehensible about Israel's response....

Nonsense. He did state it. You simply don't agree.

.. He crticizes idiots like Goldfarb -- easy target. He goes after Cheney -- easy target. But he fails to ever make the argument against Israel's response other than "proportionality."...

I think you miss the gist of his argument. His argument wasn't one of "proportionality".

... And even then, he barely scratches the surface. And he never ever suggests an alternative course for Israel. Perhaps Israel should start shooting missiles blindly into Gaza. That's proportional. Or send in suicide bombers. That's also proportional.

If you think that it's immoral for Hamas to do such, I think that Glenn's point (if you read his article again, perhaps for understanding this time) is that it would be equally immoral for Israel to do such.

Cheers,

Of course, the chief failure of Greenwald's argument, one that an 8th-grade logic student could point out, is that in the case of Israel, the civilians are not the prime target. The Hamas leader was. If the Hamas leader declares war on a country and then hides among civilians and his own family, he is ultimately responsible for what happens. (Never mind that Israel goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties in the first place.)

In the case of Hamas, the teenagers in the pizza parlor are the prime target, chosen primarily because they're easy and available. It's to kill Jews solely for the sake that they're Jews.

I'm amazed that Greenwald cannot make this distinction. (Then again, maybe he can ...)

And now the loonytoons have chimed in. I was waiting for the rapture crowd to show up. Next up would be, I guess, the vicious anti-semite sock-puppets.

If the charge is admiring Mr. Elf, I can only answer like the jury did: "We find the defendant guilty as hell, Your Honor"

Mark Elf's Blog, Jewes sans Frontiers, is an excellent sourse of information on Israel and the Gaza Occupation.

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/

Thanks for giving me a chance to suggest Mark's blog, Hollywood.

I understood your original comment.

There is plenty of strong feeling to go around in these comments threads, and it behooves one to not fall into the same trap of viewing disagreeable commenters from within a template or filter of Unclaimed Territory tribalism.

Yes, it would behoove one... but regrettably, I perhaps fall short of this ideal. I can't help but notice that the vociferous allies, admirers, and apologists for the terrorist rogue-state of Israel all employ a passive-aggressive technique.

They roll out flaming straw men on wheels and scatter factoids like handfuls of ball bearings to obstruct and undermine the discourse. And they also slip in attributions of madness or badness when such distractions fail to accomplish their purpose.

It would be hypocritical to deny that I'm a fan and devoted amateur practitioner of snark and sarcasm. Still, all snark is not equal. When it is overused, each flaming necklace of snark is much like the previous one. And when the hyper-snark is augmented by spam, it pretty much exposes the utter hollowness and bankruptcy of the snark in the first place.

High Dudgeon (I'm through trying to have a civil discussion with such a blatantly barbaric and ignorant group of nitwits) and deliberate misreading or misunderstanding of even straightforward comments like your own (apart from the merits of the comments) are also common trolling techniques.

I've been a devout Trollshunner for years, but one learns much about their ways by observing them.

Satan's back in business?

Which is why I've found Rawls' "veil of ignorance" within a construct of justice or fairness so compelling.

-- bystander

"Justice" or "fairness" as compared to what? On what scale are they judged? Indeed, where do such concepts come from in the first place?

That is the chief failure of Rawls' argument.

"Americans celebrate innocent deaths, and looking for any means to justify that premise, venturing into the absurd."

WE call that celebration a campaign. The dancing in the streets is voting for Democrat or Republican war-mongers. There will be millions of Americans celebrating war, murder and death of Afghanis, Iraqis, and Palestinians on January 20 in Washington DC. Come on down and freeze to show your love and support for war.

Anyway, if Mooser were half as smart as he claims he is he'd know that the source of my information releases it for reposting unhindered.

Ah, but you did get hindered, didn't you? All hindered, too bad.

And I defy you to find one post of mine, ever, anywhere, where I claimed a shred of intelligence. I should go looking for the Evil Eye? Feh on that.

Greenwald is evil incarnate.

Out of government or favor.

I think GG has bravely spoken consistent logical wisdom regarding the warp of war; no matter who's against who.

It requires willful ignorance (see Bush) to pretend that more Middle East carnage cures any ill.

Naturally, given the biased coverage of nearly every issue, our community can sometimes be tricked, and our rulers and opinion shapers bribed or intimidated into compliance to some degree.

That's why we must dismantle the lying, murdering, incorporating evils which continue such actions, and their insane, genocidal influence.

With some better vision, Obama might evolve away from playing Captain Ahab to Bin Laden's Moby Dick. All my friends from (some miserably reluctant refugees) that region cry for the dreadful waste of American resources, especially misspent, corruption enabling money, on such devastingly cruel and futile blind catastrophe.

Right now, i can't see much difference between Israel, Palestine, Russia, Georgia.

They've all got good people, and rotten leaders. Just like the USA.