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Sunday, January 4, 2009 12:00 AM

Orwell, blinding tribalism, selective Terrorism, and Israel/Gaza

Extreme emotional and cultural identification with one side leads people to believe that X is good when done by them and evil when done to them.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:28 PM

Oh give me a break Derbig

If nothing else, have you ever heard the term Diaspora? The word itself means displaced Jews.

The fact is that Christians have been slaughtering, displacing, and persecuting Jews as a matter of course since right around the year 0, all the way up to modern times. Hitler didn't invent Jew-hatred, he merely tapped into it.

In fact, in many eras past, ironically enough, the most tolerance Jews could find was in the Muslim world.

After WWII, many of these Jews were kicked out of their Arab countries, without their possessions, and with no compensation for their property. This is a basic historical fact, and not arguable.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:28 PM

@Zenwick

Zenwick, you really need to learn a little about the latest Hasbara techniques.

You cannot portray Israel as a success for anything but a small section of the affluent elite Jews in Israel, and those outside the country who make a living from it.

How can you tell me, at the same time, that Israel is an "economic success" but in danger of being "destroyed" by Hamas? I should invest in a country which is about to be destroyed? That's no success. So which is it?

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:29 PM

GIYUS.org/Collactive Web Assistant play on the Brainwashed Israel-firsters

You don't even have to think, it tells you what to say, what to argue, what to praise, who to praise, how to vote, who to email. It is not a tool for generating critical thought or dissent, it is a tool that relies on mindless loyalty and "blinding tribalism" regarding all things Israel.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:31 PM

War Crimes, Glenn? It can't be!

So, Mr. Greenwald, are you a profiteer?

Don't worry, Salon pays Glenn a modest stipend.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:36 PM

Renegade Iconoclast

If nothing else, have you ever heard the term Diaspora? The word itself means displaced Jews.

This is amazing! So all the Jews in America, Europe, hell the rest of the world are "displaced Jews"? They are not, of, French, American, Venezualian, you name it? They form a nation of "displaced people"

So any other nation would have the right, in fact the obligation, to get rid of them, as alien interlopers? Oh they don't have to be mean about it, but what if they wanted to be a "Christian Nation"?

Do you believe this is the situation which is now in effect with American Jews? They are "displaced Jews" who should not be citizens of America?

Are you a Jew? Is this how you feel about yourself?

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:38 PM

Examples of "blinding tribalism" re: Collactive Web Assistant Alerts:

http://ws.collactive.com/points/point?id=FsxDvIA4QszQ

Click Act Now to send a message to other top US Mayors. Ask them to support Israel as well.

Mike Bloomberg has arrive in Israel to show his support in the battle against terror in Gaza. Email other major US mayors and ask them to follow course as well.

http://ws.collactive.com/points/point?id=XXbGi6HYQkaI

Add your comment at the bottom of the article. Remind Mr. Fisk that the palestinains rejected the UN partition decision on 1947 and have decided to take the violent path multiple times since then. It's time the Palestinians face up to their responsibility in this conflict.

Robert Fisk rightly claims this war with Hamas has roots in the historic Israeli Palestinian conflict. However, when claiming that Hamas is shooting on Palestinian lands (e.g. Ashkelon..) he is going too far.

http://ws.collactive.com/points/point?id=Slvoh56GHDId

Click Act Now to send your comments to the UN's Human Rights Committee who is always so quick to condemn Israel.

Hamas must be added to the list of grotesque human rights violators, whose disdain for the suffering its policies cause the Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip is exceeded only by its open, and even proud, infliction of atrocities on Israeli civilians

http://ws.collactive.com/points/point?id=okzFLWZZ7nj7

Click Act Now to send your comments to the UN chief.

Here are some talking points you can use:

A quarter of a million Israeli citizens have been under incessant terror attacks from the Gaza Strip with thousands of missiles fired over the past eight years. No country in the world would be willing to accept this.

Israel has the right to defend its citizens against Hamas rockets, just like any country has.

While Israel is acting in self defense Hamas is intentionally targeting civilians.

And on and on and on....

No need to think, just lie back on the cushion.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:39 PM

Vicarious

Don't look me at like I am a monster

Frown out your one face, but with the other (you)

Stare like a junkie into the TV

Stare like a zombie while the mother holds her child,

Watches him die,

Hands to the sky cryin "why, oh why?"

Cause I need to watch things die from a distance

Vicariously, I live while the whole world dies

You all need it too - don't lie.

Maynard James Keenan seems to get it.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/vicarious-lyrics-tool.html

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:39 PM

@Mona

For the record...."Give Ireland Back to The Irish" was not a Beatles collaboration.

It was a Paul McCartney solo tune.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:40 PM

Chris

"Today's conflicts are won by public opinion" is the main motto looks like. At least that is in big bold letters over there at GIYUS.

For some reason it reminds me of the Mossad Motto: 'By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War'

Israel seems to be about killing, stealing, propaganda, deception, and false flag ops. Well, when they take a break from genocide.

Hmmm. Could a few of the "guests" here be paid operatives? I wonder.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:42 PM

@Chris

No need to think, just lie back on the cushion.

Only at Pesach baby! Only at Pesach! The rest of the year we sit bolt upright.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:44 PM

@angrypoodle

It was a Paul McCartney solo tune.

True, but it was a delightful surprise to me. I got a kick out of hearing it!

Sunday, January 4, 2009 02:46 PM

@ Glenn

For those who evaluate moral questions from that blindingly self-regarding perspective, anything and everything becomes easily justifiable.

That humans regard "moral questions" from a "self-regarding perspective" is not particularly surprising. "What's in it for me" is an unremarkably common question.

Philosophers and sociologist (nay, even economist and mathematicians) have looked at some of the more perverse consequences of this: Non-zero-sum games and things like the "Prisoner's Dilemma" (click sig for link to explanation).

There's an implicit understanding that has been reached in many religions, generally subsumed in an equivalent of the Golden Rule, that addresses the superficial imperatives of this "self-regard", and tries to avoid the consequences of the many real-life "Prisoner's Dilemmas that arise, particularly when we have such effective methods of killing others. They're not stated that way (perhaps because of the counterintuitive nature of the argument for such), but rather as a "higher imperative", one that prescribes a morality beyond simple "self-regard" ... but in fact, it applies to this as well, when you look at it carefully enough.

I'm human, and I care about humans. How about you, folks?

Cheers,

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