And those Christians are the people I should align myself with for the sake of Zionism? Remeber too, WinSmith, the Goyim get Israel in the end. And without the Goyim, there would be no Israel.

Aren't you lucky WinSmith? America is your Shabbes Goy and so are the Goyim.

"those Christians" died centuries ago. Conflating historical events with people alive today is nonsense, DM, and you know it.

The Goyim didn't "get Israel in the end" whatever the hell that means. Palestine had hardly ever existed as a soverign state before 1948.

And it was a protectorate of Britain, numbnuts. And the State of Israel was formed by the entire United Nations. Here's President Truman on his deep love for Israel in 1948:

"I think the proper thing to do, and the thing I have been doing, is to do what I think is right and let them all go to hell."

Thank God for Israel's "Shabbas Goy," whatever the hell that means. Did you buy Judaism for Dummies or something, D.M? Drop the lingo, it's insulting.

Renegade

Well, having killed tens of thousands of Iraqis, I'm glad that we don't worship death in our culture. That would make us no better than Hamas.

I've specifically condemned that very act, many times, including today, as have many other Americans. We elected a new government in large part because we all condemn that action on the part of our government. How does it in any way make your point to then throw it in my face?

The Iraq war was wrong from the start, and the loss of civilian life is completely tragic and irreconcilable with our own Democratic values. This opinion is in fact widely shared amongst Americans, the vast majority of whom are against the war. Pretending otherwise does not make it so.

do you have any emotional, cultural or religious attachments to Israel that make you see it as something special, as more than just another foreign country?

Glenn, did something happen to you in early childhood that made you hate your mommy? Did your adolescent experiences as a closeted gay make you rebel against your synagogue?

Asking these questions makes a lot more sense than your stupid rhetorical tactic of trying to make any disagreement with your biased opinions a matter of bias.

Why are you unwilling to debate the issues? You are doing nothing but patronizing those who disagree with you, and it's extremely offensive.

Zionism is the ultimate expression of self-hatred and God-htred in a Jew. A zionist bel;ieves that Judaism, with its reliance on God and His will has failed the Jews, and believes Judaism has failed the Jews. Rather than go on being a Jew at this particular stage in our history, they have become disgusted and said:"let us adopt the measures and means of those who persecute us! We will have, not God, but land, and guns, and they will protect us more than God ever has.

Because deep down, the Zionist hates himself for being a Jew. He sees all the ethics of Judaism as so much weakness, and Jewish religiousity as so much obscurantism. He sees his own Judaism as only a sure route to extinction.

Moreover, he does think there is something wrong with him, something which will prevent him from ever living, as a Jew, in peace and fellowship with his fellow-man.

Zionism reject God and the Goyim! It leaves a man completely alone, subject only to, now watch this, the rule of other Jews!

I believe the Jewish religion is no bar to a person living as a happy and valued member of any nation, and I wonder what the Zionists think of Jews that they believe we can't.

Or does Winsmith propose to tell us that the US, which is now supporting Israel, is suddenly going to have an anti-semetic spree, which will still allow all the Jews in America to escape to Israel? Got a high opinion of your fellow Americans, Winsmith?

I am deeply saddened that a movement and a people that was supposed to stand for some of the very best of human behaviour and thinking, has morphed into a very distorted, warped, and frankly, almost insane entity.

________________________________

I feel exactly the same way, apart from quibbling with the modifier "almost".

About my own native land, the U S of A, that is.

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/181c4bf00c44e5fd85256cef0073c426/8d26108af518ce7e052565a6006e8948!OpenDocument

"By June 1951, there were 876,000 persons registered on UNWRAPRNE relief rolls compared with 957,000 when the Agency took over"

This was after the UN weeded out duplications and people posing as regugees because they were destitute. Now please take up this discussion with the UN, and leave it out of this space.

What were you saying about Zenwick not being as bad as some?

It is utterly absurd that this nonsense be once again dragged out now, but for those who want to argue against this nonsense about there being no / few Arabs or Muslims in Palestine before (1948 / Balfour / 20th Century / whatever), here are a couple of resources:

There is Walid Khalidi's unexciting but documentation-filled history of early 20th century Palestinian Arab cities and villages, All That Remains: The Palestinian Villages Occupied and Depopulated by Israel in 1948.

http://www.amazon.com/All-That-Remains-Palestinian-Depopulated/dp/0887282245

There is also, inspired by Khalidi's work, the online mapping, documentation, and oral history project Palestine Remembered:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/MissionStatement.htm

If you can avoid the excited over-capitalization of "ZIONIST!", here's one example, land ownership etc in Khan Yunis:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/GeoPoints/Khan_Yunis_1354/index.html

Here's a map of Palestinian land ownership in 1945:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

Feel free to browse the site 'til your desire for spreadsheet and map documentation of land ownership in the last century turns you to stone.

None of which will help anyone out of this current mess. In fact this is all just part of the game of one-upmanship and avoiding making a final-state settlement:

ON 1 APRIL 2008, the New York–based coalition Justice for Jews from Arab Countries (JJAC) announced that the U.S. House of Representatives had passed Resolution 185 (H.Res. 185), a nonbinding “sense of the House” resolution concerning the fate of 800,000 Jews who left Arab countries in the wake of the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948, some without their property. Describing these Jews as “refugees,” the resolution called on the U.S. president to ensure that American representatives participating in international fora refer to the plight of Jewish refugees from Arab countries whenever mention is made of the 1948 Palestinian refugees.

H.Res. 185—which JJAC helped to write—was not an effort to demand compensation for Jewish property losses in the Arab world, but rather a tactic to help the Israeli government deflect Palestinian refugee claims in any final Israeli-Palestinian peace deal, claims that include Palestinian refugees’ demand for the “right of return” to their pre-1948 homes in Israel.

The counterclaim strategy is not new. Indeed, it had formed the bedrock of Israeli refugee compensation policy since 1951, when Israel announced that it would factor in property losses sustained by Jews emigrating from Arab countries when the time came to compensate Palestinians. The onset of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process in 1993, however, cast the compensation issue in a new and sharper light. At Camp David in 2000, and at Taba in 2001, Israeli negotiators proposed the establishment of an international fund capitalized with Israeli and foreign contributions to pay compensation to claimants from all sides of the conflict.

http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10105&jid=1&href=abstract

Last article excerpt only, full content must be purchased.