heads of men, women and children in Gaza are being served up on a golden platter to Mubarak. Yes, that's a lot of heads - 400 and still counting - but it's an enormous golden platter inscribed with "From your admirers in the United States". Hosni Mubarak should party as hard as he can because "You know not the day nor the hour". I don't pray but, if I did, I'd ask Thor the Thunderer to send sheets of rain and bolts of lightning down on Gaza tonight to protect the wretched of the earth living there from the attacks of the Israeli war-planes and the rest of the dreaded Juggernaut from a region much closer, geographically, than India.

that's been linked here shows something else altogether.

I was suspicious of it from the outset; the visuals, of course, were awful, and it seemed to me that if there was an Israeli attack on a market in Gaza and there was video of it, it would be plastered all over the media, including al Jazeera -- especially there -- but I've watched a lot of their coverage and there has been nothing like that video, though a doctor at the main hospital said that the Israelis had attacked what he said was a fruit market that morning and the hospital was innundated with injured from that attack.

According to Avery's link, the video is of the aftermath of an accidental detonation of a pick up truck carrying Qassam rockets at a Hamas rally in the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza on September 23, 2005.

Hideous. Horrible. Awful. But the Israelis didn't do it.

But if we were to argue the way the Israeli propagandist do though, the incident was the fault of the Israelis, and all the deaths and injuries were the responsibility of the Israelis because of their illegal and blocade and occupation of Palestine.

So. Even though the Israelis didn't do it, it's their fault.

And as for the actual attack on the Gazan fruit market....

If we were to argue like an Israeli propagandist.

You might want to read up on the rights of Arab Israeli citizens. They have far more rights than Jews do in Arab countries.

By the way, care to discuss women's rights in Arab countries? I know it wouldn't fit your grand narrative and all. Because it's fun to type "tribalists" a lot.

When I read that the holocaust is justification for using any means to "defend" Israel and I see Israelis being almost as barbaric as the Nazis, I don't stop reading, I feel sick to my stomach that the Israelis have become their own worst enemies as have their supporters who accept little responsibility for those means and blame the "enemy" to justify this barbarism.

As others have pointed out, this post doesn't really have anything to do with the same standard Israeli/Palestinian arguments that have been exhaustively recited by the same group of people here for days now.

What happened in 1948 and who did what to whom is really completely besides the point.

I know it's probably going to fall on deaf ears -- obsessives on this issues on both sides can't ever stop -- but I'd like to request that you at least pretend that you're here to discuss what others are discussing.

Not every post that mentions the word "Israel" and "Palestinians" is an excuse to start spouting the same tired one-sided arguments about this conflict that everyone has heard from I/P obsessives a billion times before.

Nearly a million of them came from their neighboring Arab countries who, infuriated by the formation of Israel, stripped them of their money, their land, their wealth, and drove them into exile.

Which was a completely predictable event and the Zionists have used it to there advantage by making those people second-class citizens of Israel.

The Zionist sure as hell didn't think of their fellow-Jew's welfare.

And to top it off, it's not true! Besides, why wouldn't they be happier in Israel. A Jew cannot be fully a Jew anywhere else, can he?

"I put "Palestinians" in quotes because in 1948, the notion of a distinct Palestinian people hadn't been invented yet. Back then, they were known as Syrians, Egyptians, Jordanians and Lebanese.

The total population of Arabs in Israel in 1948 is hard to estimate, but it was probably no more than a few hundred thousand. Israel was sparsely inhabited and completely undeveloped, essentially empty desert, which is why Jews saw the opportunity to build a homeland there."

This is laughable. No serious scholar--even the most heinously pro-Israel would claim such things because they are simply unproveable. There were about one million Palestinians in historical Palestine in 1940,

see here:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story559.html

These figure are from a British mandate census, the same British who were helping the colonial project for Jews in historical Palestine.

Indeed, I think it would seem laughable for Palestinians in the area to think of themselve as Lebanese, Syrian, etc...when they didn't live in those countries. Win...your battle seems to be against facts. And you're losing.

I was suspicious of it from the outset; the visuals, of course, were awful, and it seemed to me that if there was an Israeli attack on a market in Gaza and there was video of it, it would be plastered all over the media, including al Jazeera. . .

Yes, me, too -- that's why I noted I couldn't vouch for its authenticity even though I've seen it posted all over the Internet as a claim of an event that happened recently.

I noted the correction.

"Surely you have some Birth Certificates to peruse."

Sadly I haven't. I'm still waiting for that B movie matinee idol Rene Le Gade Iconoclastes to produce it. But by the waft of cheap cologne I see the bain of every director he ever worked for, has now at last arrived, on thread if not on time.

Perhaps he has Obama's certificate secreted in an inside pocket of the greasy tuxedo that is his all too familiar and dreary trade mark?