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Sunday, January 4, 2009 12:00 AM

Orwell, blinding tribalism, selective Terrorism, and Israel/Gaza

Extreme emotional and cultural identification with one side leads people to believe that X is good when done by them and evil when done to them.

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Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:47 AM

Thank you, Glenn

It takes a good deal of courage to do what you're doing, and I thank you for it.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:50 AM

Thank you Glenn

I am as old as Israel, white, female and of German descent. The Arabs as a people did not create, or particapate in, the war that created Israel. So why have the Arabs been required to atone for this war for all these many years?

They are paying a huge price for our western guilt.

Glenn, you've finally said it out loud. It is only the belief that Gazan residents are subhuman that could make such a massive transfence possible.

When I was very young I met a Palistinian family who cooked for my family a wonderful foreign dinner and told me they would never be allowed to go home again. Them telling me this, in my stable central Michigan home, is something I vividly remember to this day. Those people were not subhuman.

In continuing this horrible conflict, the Israelis are wrong. They are being bullies and we are being bullies by arming them.

The Hamas rockets would have stopped if the settlements had stopped being built, if that wall had not been built, if free passage would be assured. If the Israelis would just be nice.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:51 AM

Psychopaths.

Those who believe in the inverse of the Golden Rule and then blame their victims.

We just just start using the words evil and despicable rather than clinical or polite terms.

Nazis just were not as successful at their task as these monsters are.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:52 AM

Glenn's typically superficial analysis of the Middle East

This is so typical of Glenn. His obsession with Neocons/Weekly Standard/Cheney leads him to view everything through that lens, including support for Israel's response to Hamas. Israel's response is in no way "Neocon." Neoconservatism is an American phenomenom. Israel's response is directly related to rocket fire. This is a war of attrition. One need not be like-minded with Cheney to support this response.

Moreover, Glenn once again fails to state what is so morally reprehensible about Israel's response. He crticizes idiots like Goldfarb -- easy target. He goes after Cheney -- easy target. But he fails to ever make the argument against Israel's response other than "proportionality." And even then, he barely scratches the surface. And he never ever suggests an alternative course for Israel. Perhaps Israel should start shooting missiles blindly into Gaza. That's proportional. Or send in suicide bombers. That's also proportional.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:54 AM

Thank you Glenn

I just want to thank you, Glenn, for continually being the voice of reason in the media and "blogosphere" when it comes to the rule of law and basic human decency.

I am very pro-Israel, but from the same standpoint that I am pro-America - I defende the ideals of the nation, but I can't defend actions taken that completely contradict any reason I have for supporting it. Why would I support terrorist actions taken by Israel, when I despise them when taken by Hamas? It makes no sense, if you judge the value of every life equally.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:54 AM

TeachESL

Listen to this very carefully you blood thirsty subhuman dog: starving by a blockade a population that you displaced off their own land is barbarism and a war crime.

Your "handle" tells me you teach "Especially Sloppy Logic". You demonstrate it here.

What in the god damn hell do you expect a people to do as you try to commit slow genocide against them? What right do you have to this land that you stole by the force of superior arms supplied by the western powers?

Withdraw to the 1948 borders and pay reparations and the war will end.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:55 AM

excellent commentary

Dear Glenn,

Thanks for another excellent article. As an earlier poster said, you express my views and concerns with far greater eloquence, clarity and authority that I ever could.

The problem of tribalism, on both sides, is very real. It is especially disconcerting to see the extent to which the view that Arabs/Muslims are subhuman has taken hold in the West, and especially (it seems) among the pro-Israel community (both Jews and Christians). As you say, it should not be difficult to understand why people living under 40 years of a grinding occupation would not be driven to despair. The resort to extremism is, under these circumstances, hardly surprising. (Indeed, it's worth bearing in mind that Israel actually supported Hamas in the 1970s and 80s because it saw it as a possible way to undermine the PLO).

I note that New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Rep. Ackerman, the head of the Congressional Committee on the Middle East, are presently in Israel, offering unqualified support for Israel and blaming Hamas, of course, for every innocent civilian that Israel kills. This tripe may go over well in the US and, perhaps, New York - it is hardly effective in the rest of the world, where Israel's image gets blacker and more irredeemable with every passing day. And, along with it, the image of the US.

In the end, of course, Hamas will emerge from this stronger than ever. It will have martyrs galore, it will be able to point to the merciless butchery of men, women and children as living proof of the savagery and fundamentally evil nature of the Israelis, and it will be regarded as heroic and resolute in much of the Arab world. And, the next time there are free and fair Palestinian elections, it will have an excellent shot at consolidating its political power. All of this is speculation, of course, but it's probably not far off what will happen. The one certainty is that Hamas can't be stopped by guns and bombs. It's an idea and a movement that gains its strength from adversity. One would think that Jewish leaders would understand this fact better than most.

Sincerely,

Shaun Narine

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:57 AM

My dear Mammal,

The Solution? Stop treating Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews. Treat them like their neighbors and kinsmen, trade with them, do business with them, help them, stop bombing them.

Making money off of war is more important than not being Nazis.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:58 AM

Israel and Pakistan

Let me tell you a story.

in 1947, two states were born, both to protect religious minorities. Muslims in India were being marginalized and targeted (they still are, to some degree). Jews in Europe were subject to Christian anti-Semitism, so why not settle them on some Arab land.

Today, both countries are militaristic, nuclear powers, and I would submit that both qualify as failed states.

It is taking longer for us to see that Israel is a failed state, and this is largely because of external support. If you think in terms of "venture capital", as long as your "investors" are willing to pour in money and support, it keeps you going. There are numerous examples of companies with fundamentally flawed business models that sucked up huge amounts of money before they died.

In Israel's case, I think the "Jewish state" concept is 20th-century obsolete, and what is needed is one country where all sides fight fairly and civilly, and all men are conceptually born equal...this is what we believe in the US, why should we think of Israel as any different? Israel has itself killed the two-state option, it is now for the rest of the world to impose the poetic justice of one-state, and declare Zionism to be dead.

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