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Sunday, January 4, 2009 12:00 AM

Orwell, blinding tribalism, selective Terrorism, and Israel/Gaza

Extreme emotional and cultural identification with one side leads people to believe that X is good when done by them and evil when done to them.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:46 AM

Zenwick

I thought you'd finally come out and admitted to being a troll yesterday.

"Anyway, it has gotten boring here. I'm done. Bye."

I doubt anyone believes you have sincere feelings one way or the other.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:48 AM

Did anyone see the CNN coverage of the war last night?

They had Hamas officials, PLO officials, Israel officials, citizens from both sides, and the half black guy stuck everyone that came on his show with hard questions from the other side. No one got favoritism, EVEN THE ISRAELI SPOKESPERSON. The Sderot resident got challenged about whether they thought the ground invasion would make them safer. It was excellent. Last night changed my opinion of CNN.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:49 AM

heru-ur

Thanks for that. Last night on British t.v. they showed the wall built around Gaza. It had remote controlled heavy machine guns mounted on it at intervals pointing into Gaza. Can you imagine the quite deliberate psychological anxiety that such weapons would cause those who live near them whether they were used or not?

At every stage in their dealings the Israeli government wants to impress upon the Palestinian Israel's utter indifference and contempt for their welfare.

If you asked me what should be done, the first thing I'd suggest is round up all the criminals in AIPAC & JINSA who are subverting the American State apparatus as much as the Israelis are oppressing the Arabs.

But it can't be done. Seven years of un attention in America and now the Israelis are well entrenched inside of the DoHS that was set up by the Patriot Act written by a man who now heads the DoHS, Michael Chertoff who may very well have dual Israeli/American citizenship.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:51 AM

@Zenwick

Derbig, are you seriously asking why Jews have a historical problem not having a state of their own? Keep asking, my friend, I don't have time or inclination to teach you to read.

Zenwick, who are "the Jews"? And why is Judaism, no matter what our troubles are, a good basis for a state.

And what gives certain Jews the right to rule over other Jews, on that basis?

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:51 AM

London Lad, what are you trying to prove? I know about Alan Bennett's plays and I've just taken his "Untold Stories" off the bookshelf.

Perhaps you need to know more about him; he's mild, sardonic and doesn't kick anyone's butt around, London Pride (what a tiny little flower!) This should appeal to you from his preface, although Bennett is a Yorkshireman: "At Christmas when I was a boy and hung my pillowcase at the end of the bed ..." and the final line from Bennett is "Take heart". I'm really heartened that you should waste your precious time on me as you've been more involved in genealogy up to now. Yes, I'm just a stoop-id Biddy and you're an expert on Cockney rhyming slang e.g. Brahms and Lizst. You might like to explain that to the Yanks.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:55 AM

Derbig

Indeed, you could write a whole treatise on the toxic impact of Israel on Jewish diversity world wide.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:55 AM

@maureenodonnell

Look, I've got one word for you, girlchik:

yiddishkeit.com

Fulfill the prime directive: Dress British, Speak Yiddish!

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:56 AM

faith, laughter, and burnt toast

How can we have any faith in the future of humanity when for all our recorded history as a species "ingrained tribalistic blindness" has typically reigned over enlightenment?

If I didn't have an extremely dark sense of humor, I'd be toast ... burnt toast, to boot, which no one enjoys.

Ah, what the hell, I AM burnt toast! HUMANITY is burnt toast. We're ALL burnt toast!

Glenn, you're implacably vigilant. I'm awed.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:56 AM

Okay, I'm ready to get lynched

An asymmetric guerrilla war is very difficult if not impossible to win. That's why it's against the Geneva convention to fight out of uniform, to launch attacks from civilian areas, and to hide your soldiers amongst civilians.

The only group that really wants civilian casualties is Hamas, period, as proven by their illegal and deadly provocation of Israel, when they know perfectly well the inevitable consequences of their actions. Theirs is a culture that celebrates death over life. There are no parties and celebrations in the streets when a Palestinian child is born, but when a teen straps a bomb to his chest and blows up 20 civilians on a bus, there is a block party.

Having said that, I still tend to agree that Israel's response is not acceptable. Unlike others who at least see the Israeli side of the issue, I'm not hard-pressed to come up with an alternative. Frankly, neither is Israel, and I'm pretty sure they know what needs to be done, but lack the political will to do it.

Instead of bombing civilians, the Israelis need to give up some of their own blood. When they catch a top Hamas leader walking into a building, they need to send troops into that building and kill the leader. It will cost some Israeli soldiers' lives, no doubt, but it will also save the lives of innocents. It is also unarguably an accepted tactic under the laws of war. If your enemy is out of uniform, you are allowed to shoot him, and are not required to give quarter, or even to accept surrender.

So, I'll agree that Israel's response to the incessant bombing of its civilians in Sderot is disproportionate and cowardly. However, I strenuously insist that Hamas is also culpable, and even that they are deliberately trying to foment violence against their own people. I also would say that modern warfare on the part of all large powers is cowardly. The US also sends bombs rather than troops, because we are afraid of getting bloodied. That's not war, that's reducing the lives of civilians to a video game. War isn't a game, it is sometimes a necessary evil, and it requires the blood of your own soldiers to be done honorably.

Our own death toll in Iraq is around 3k of our own soldiers, and at least 10s of thousands of innocent Iraqis, surely far more than Israel has ever killed. Perhaps we should look to our own house, and examine the way that technology has made ghoulish cowards of us all. Yes, all of us, you included, because it's being done in your name, and my name too.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:59 AM

Renegade

"Theirs is a culture that celebrates death over life. There are no parties and celebrations in the streets when a Palestinian child is born, but when a teen straps a bomb to his chest and blows up 20 civilians on a bus, there is a block party."

Tell me more about your studies of Palestinian culture. Citations? Or did you actually conduct your study of birthing rituals in the field?

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